Kathi Lipp (00:10) 

Hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. I am here with Tonya Kubo and Tonya, we have a very deep topic today, one that people have big feelings about. We’ve recently done some laundry episodes, but I want to talk about the actual space ? where your laundry is. Now you and I have different spaces for our laundry. 

? Yours is in the garage, right? Yeah, I lived for many, years with laundry in the garage. Can I just say it had some pros and cons. I wonder if it does for you as well. What are your feelings about laundry in the garage, your garage being your laundry room? 

Tonya Kubo (00:42) 

Correct. 

? like this is the only time I’ve ever lived someplace where the laundry was in the garage. So ? I don’t have a lot of comparison. I don’t like it being outside of the house, but at the same time, it’s nice not to have the laundry pile inside the house. 

Kathi Lipp (00:59) 

Okay? 

Yeah, I had it ? at one of my homes. Well, actually, growing up, it was outside in the garage. And then the first house I co-owned with my then husband, it was outside. And I liked it not being in the house, but I missed it being in the house. Yeah, OK. So that’s not helpful, I know. But ? yes, yes. 

Tonya Kubo (01:40) 

? I feel like that’s exactly how I feel. 

Kathi Lipp (01:44) 

It was just nice that, you know, we could put things out there. There was enough room for like a rolling rack so we could hang things. And my laundry room currently, which you have seen, is the smallest laundry room I’ve ever seen in my entire life. ? I think it was built for when laundry, when washing machines were much, they weren’t as deep. And so, ? 

Tonya Kubo (01:50) 

Mm-hmm. 

Mm-hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (02:09) 

You have to kind of slide in there to do things, but you make what you make work, right? And so, yeah. So I recently, ? I like having my laundry space indoors now, especially since we live in such, it can be very, very cold here. And the laundry room can either be a stress zone or a streamlined system. 

Tonya Kubo (02:15) 

Right. 

Kathi Lipp (02:36) 

And so let’s spend some time to make it streamlined. Let’s make this happen. we just recently did a post over on my page about laundry where people had very strong opinions, very, very strong feelings. We will talk about that in this episode. So if you’re like, are they gonna talk about it? Yes, we are. But. ? 

I want to talk about how we can make that space, no matter what your sorting system is, as streamlined as possible. So I think the most important thing, at least for me, that nothing that is, anything that has nothing to do with laundry has no place in the laundry room, unless you have one of those giant laundry rooms where you can also put in a StairMaster or something. 

That has never been my situation. Mine has always been in closets or those kind of things. So you clear the clutter. You know what you need in there. You need things like your detergent, your fabric softener, your color catchers, which if you don’t know what a color catcher is, that’s part of the big discussion going on in Facebook. These are, I found out about these because my mom’s a quilter. 

And before you use a fabric to quilt with, you need to wash it to get all the dyes out. But you don’t want that dark red going on to the white polka dot. So you put in, it’s a shout color catcher, and we’ll put that in here in the show notes. And that little piece of absorbs, or I guess it’s a piece of paper, absorbs all that dye. And so your things don’t get messed up. 

If you like to wash dangerously like I do, which means mixing colors and things like that, that is a beautiful thing to have. You also want your dryer sheets, your stain removers. We use dryer balls, all that kind of stuff. ? Let go of old empty products. We just recently, okay, my mom said she told me about this like seven years ago and apparently I ignored her. We’re not supposed to use bleach in our septic system. 

Tonya Kubo (04:56) 

Mmm. 

Kathi Lipp (04:56) 

? 

Because it eats the microbes and yeah, which totally makes sense So we don’t need bleach anymore. So I got that out of there now. I still have a bleach pen I will die with that bleach pen in my cold dead hand ? Because I love Yes, if you see me being buried without that bleach pen You go talk to Roger. Okay, cuz something so some something suspicious. All right and then 

Tonya Kubo (04:59) 

Mm-hmm. 

Okay, good to know. 

Kathi Lipp (05:26) 

Also, I think it’s time, I’ll never forget this. When we first bought our first house and there was a coat closet, I thought, wait, I could have matching hangers in that coat closet? Because we had come from a tiny, tiny apartment. And I guess it wasn’t the first house I owned, but it was the first house that was kind of big and it was my first coat closet. And my mom’s like, yeah, go crazy. And I bought matching hangers. And there is just something. 

about matching hangers for me. You too, Tonya, I can see you nodding. 

Tonya Kubo (05:59) 

Oh yeah, 

no, think, well, maybe not everybody, but yes, matching hangers, I feel like everything just is so much easier to like fit when all, cause all the hangers are the same size, the same length, all of that, that’s part of the matching piece. I love 

Kathi Lipp (06:09) 

Yes. 

Yes, so Roger has white plastic hangers and I have the black velvet covered hangers because those velvet ones skeeve him out and the white ones my clothes fall off on them because all of his shirts are the button-up collar so like we just know what works for us so get rid of anything that it that you don’t need in there hangers baskets 

Tonya Kubo (06:27) 

Hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (06:43) 

Laundry gadgets that you thought were going to solve all your problems and they just took up space and then I want you to think about Zones, this is step two. So do you need ? if you’re a sorter? Do you need different bins for maybe whites darks delicates that kind of thing. We have cabinets over our washing machine and dryers so we have some things in there like our lingerie bags and the cleaning products and things like that. 

? So you need a sorting zone or you know, I don’t really have space for that So our sorting zone is if we’re sort anything it’s gonna be up in Roger’s closet where we keep the dirty clothes ? Don’t worry. I store a lot of things for him ? the cleaning zone. So all the cleaning products together ? Folding zone again. Mine is too small. We don’t really have a space for folding out there. So this is our very sophisticated syndrome 

system, we grab everything from the dryer that doesn’t need to be hung up and we put it on the couch for Moose to then lay in. Because this is one of her chief, chief ? gifts in life is being able to lay in warm clothes. Now, where do you fold? 

Tonya Kubo (08:03) 

On the bed, on our bed specifically. 

Kathi Lipp (08:06) 

Okay, okay. That’s a bit. Yes. And that works for you, right? Like what other space are you going to do? 

Tonya Kubo (08:10) 

Yeah, 

yeah, we don’t have a lot of other space and Otto also appreciates a nice pile of clean laundry to lay in as well. 

Kathi Lipp (08:17) 

Mmm. 

Okay, 

so has is it Susu is that am I? The new kitten who’s by the way doing great, right? Yes Has Susu discovered the warm laundry pile yet? 

Tonya Kubo (08:23) 

Yeah, Susu’s the kitten. 

Yes, yes, very, very healthy. 

Yes, yes. you know, it’s funny is Otto even likes an empty laundry basket. Like they just like baskets. But yes, we we put the laundry on the bed and we just tip the basket over on the side. So it doesn’t topple off the bed because that is really upsetting. And then we came in and he was like tucked all the way in the back, just like perched like a king on top of the pile. 

Kathi Lipp (08:40) 

Yes, right. 

Oh, 

I love it. I love it so much. It makes me so happy. Also, you know, all of this may not be contained in your laundry room, but if you have a big laundry room, a hanging zone, so we do, we have little hooks all across and then we have another bar that has S hooks on it that we can use for drying things or hanging shirts, that kind of thing. So that’s been really, really helpful. 

We also air dry a lot of our stuff. And so we have a bathroom right next to the laundry room. So I’ll often just hang things from hangers in that bathroom that works for us. And then an ironing zone. So we don’t iron a bunch of stuff. We have pretty much decided unless somebody is getting married or buried, we’re probably not wearing something that’s ironed. But we do have ? up in one of our 

Tonya Kubo (09:47) 

Hahaha 

Kathi Lipp (09:53) 

Extra bedrooms, we have an ironing board that kind of thing So I think the important thing is here It may not all be contained in your laundry room But you should have a system of where you are sorting your clothes where you’re keeping the cleaning supplies where you’re putting where you’re folding things Where you’re hanging things and where you’re ironing things if those are all part of your system ? Any any thoughts on that tonya anything that you would do differently or anything that you think about differently on that? 

Tonya Kubo (10:23) 

No, I think, you know, I mean, ultimately what you’re saying, Kathi is is it needs to function for you, for your family and for the space you have. Like you could never set up your laundry space like mine simply because you’ve got like this much space and like. 

Kathi Lipp (10:42) 

It’s a it’s 

it’s the size of a half bathroom is our our whole laundry room. 

Tonya Kubo (10:49) 

? really? Is it that big? I feel like it’s much smaller than a half bathroom. 

Kathi Lipp (10:51) 

Okay, I was gonna say, I was gonna 

say if that, yeah, yeah, it’s the size for a toilet in the sink. Yeah. 

Tonya Kubo (10:59) 

Yeah, like, yeah, like 

if you lived in Japan or in the downtown San Francisco. Yeah, super tiny, right? Whereas for, mean, like I don’t have a dedicated laundry room on one hand, but on the other hand, I have an entire garage and my washer and dryer set up against one wall. I could choose to make as much of that space my laundry room as I want. 

Kathi Lipp (11:04) 

Right, yes, it’s very tiny. 

Mm-hmm. 

Yeah, absolutely. Just know what it is and make sure that everybody in the family knows what it is and then you can go. Okay, so number three, ? toss or store. So get rid of broken or mismatched laundry baskets. Store off-season items like heavy blankets or guest bedding in someplace else. know, make sure that… 

Tonya Kubo (11:31) 

Mm-hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (11:49) 

You know, one of my fatal flaws is just leaving things on top of the dryer for way too long. I’ve been known to, I know, I’m the only one, right? And so just making sure that you’re making it as intentional and useful as possible. Don’t let things linger there. Okay, and then number four, make it manageable. ? you figure out how many loads you’re doing in a week and 

Tonya Kubo (11:55) 

What? What? No. Shh. 

Yes! 

Kathi Lipp (12:18) 

Can you do one load a day? And I don’t sort my clothes, which is the big controversy. But one thing I do do, and it’s not sorting by colors, it’s sorting by textures, is I’ll do one load a week of things that I don’t wanna iron. Like all of Roger’s cotton shirts, my cotton shirts, cotton pants, that kind of thing. So. ? 

Tonya Kubo (12:21) 

Mm-hmm. 

Mm-hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (12:46) 

But I will do that all at one space. So I will go and grab that out immediately. So there’s very little ironing to do. Now you have one person in your family who just does her own laundry. And so does she have a day of the week? What is that? 

Tonya Kubo (12:59) 

Mm-hmm. 

Lily usually does her laundry on weekends, so either Saturday or Sunday, depending. But all of her clothes is like one load. 

Kathi Lipp (13:12) 

Right, right. And they’re mostly black, right? Yeah. Yes, I’ve met her. Yes. She’s a mini of my kids. Like, yeah, Kimberly ? and Amanda for a long time. Amanda, there was there used to be, I don’t know if there is anymore, a special detergent that’s just for black clothes. And yeah, so that was very important to Amanda for a very long time. Okay. 

Tonya Kubo (13:15) 

Yes, because you’ve met her. 

Yeah. 

Mm-hmm. 

Mm-hmm. Mmm. 

Kathi Lipp (13:38) 

We’re going to take a quick break and when we come back, we’re going to talk about organizing your laundry room and some ideas around that. So we’ll be right back. 

Okay, friends, let’s talk about organizing this. Now, let me say between decluttering and organizing, let’s talk about a couple of things that maybe you should do. One thing is dust behind your dryer, especially. ? Get down there with a vacuum, really clean that out. Having a long, long reaching feather duster or ? one of those bristly brooms is a good thing. 

And then also, if you haven’t done it in a while, cleaning out your dryer duct. So there are kits you can buy online or at Home Depot that is just a big snake to get down there because fires start this way and you should be cleaning that out either every six months or once a year, depending on how often you use it. But if your dryer is not functioning the way it should be, before you call a repairman, 

Get that all cleaned out because you can have that so backed up that no air is flowing and it could be a real struggle and it causes a lot of dust in there. So give everything a good wipe down. Get a cleaner that you love. I have a combination of okay, I’m bougie. Let’s just be clear. I am super bougie. I love the smell of grapefruit. Don’t necessarily love the taste, love the smell. And so ? 

I ordered Clorox wipes that are a grapefruit smell and I use the method cleaner that is that. So grabbing your roll of paper towels, giving everything a good wipe down, ? wiping the top of your washing machine. like the lid lifted but in there. And then also you should be washing the inside of your washing machine. 

Tonya Kubo (15:19) 

Mm-hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (15:44) 

At least once every six months and so there’s a product for that. There’s a product for everything guys Of course there is I will put that in there, but you just want to clear that out now I’ve noticed also this may help one or two people out there ? When we back when we were using bleach like it wasn’t affecting anything ? It really damaged the top of our washing machine, and so I got some spray paint 

that is for ? white enamel appliances. And I took some blue painter tape and I marked off all the things that I didn’t want that color and then laid an old towel across the tub so it didn’t get in there. And now you have to be willing to not use your washing machine for like a full day. But I sprayed that on there so it wouldn’t keep ? rusting and getting degraded. ? 

? That’s something to think about with that, but clean that space really really well. You’re gonna feel so good ? And then this is the time to think about could I put some wall-mounted shelves or cabinets for storage in there if I need it a small rolling cart between the washer and dryer is a great like a slimline one ? Over-the-door racks for hanging items or storing cleaning supplies that those are some great ways to maximize space 

I’ve also done, in one of my houses, we did an over the door shoe organizer for ? sorting. So we had some cleaning supplies in there, but I would also put things like single socks, that kind of thing. ? And then the next step, label everything. As I get older, I’m a bigger believer in… 

marking it up like a kindergarten room and just labeling absolutely everything you need in there. ? And then installing hooks for things like if you’re keeping brooms or mops or reusable bags in there. And then I did something last year that ? I guess it’s been a couple of years now that I’m really glad I did. We’ve got those giant ? containers of laundry soap from Costco and they’re so 

Tonya Kubo (18:06) 

Mm-hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (18:08) 

Heavy and for a while you knew that I had a problem with my thumb going all the way up to my shoulder and You trying to lift that thing was making me be in so much pain So I got these refillable jugs off of Amazon. I’ll put a link in there that are really cute and so I would put most of the soap in there and then I had a couple of leftover smaller containers soap containers and 

and I would just fill that up. So it was like three containers, but I stored that, I could get rid of that giant container. None of these were super heavy and it just made everything look 10 % cuter and I’ll take 10%. So using clear jars or label container for things like detergent, dryer sheets, I have my dryer sheets in a little wooden crate. They’re not scented, so I’m not trying to keep the scent in them. They’re unscented. 

Tonya Kubo (19:01) 

Mm. 

Kathi Lipp (19:04) 

? has been really, really helpful. ? Anything you’ve done to make your space, I know probably in the garage you’re not so worried about cute, but anything you’ve done to make it more functional. 

Tonya Kubo (19:14) 

Mm-hmm. 

Yeah, so we do have a hanging rack, right? Because certain things that we want to hang to dry. So we have a shelf that is over the washer and dryer. And so I like that a lot ? because it makes the laundry detergent, the dryer sheets and everything in easy access. And I keep a little tiny, it’s a very tiny trash can up there to put like the balls of lint. 

Kathi Lipp (19:41) 

Hmm, 

guess. 

Tonya Kubo (19:44) 

I will share a cleaning tip. It’s a little weird, but I’m going to share it anyway. those of us like the one thing I will say that’s problematic about having your washer and dryer in the garage is you get a lot more dust than you would inside the house. But years ago, somebody had talked to me about taking the ball of lint out of the dryer trap and using that to clean off the top of the dryer because 

Kathi Lipp (19:47) 

Please. 

yeah. 

Interesting. 

Tonya Kubo (20:08) 

It takes 

all the lint in the surface desk by static because there’s a bunch of static in there. And so I’ll do that to clean it off and then I wipe it down. But I don’t have like the balls of lint that collect once you get it wet. So that that’s my cleaning tip right there. That’s all I got for you folks. But it’s funny is it’s you know, it’s the only trash can in the whole house that actually doesn’t have trash. It’s just like very light because it just has lint balls in there. 

Kathi Lipp (20:13) 

Yeah! 

Yeah! 

Tonya Kubo (20:34) 

But 

it has been very helpful to us in terms of keeping the washer and the dryer a lot less dusty than they typically would be. 

Kathi Lipp (20:42) 

That’s nice. 

I like that then you feel like you can actually use that surface. I love that so much Okay. Now let’s just talk about maintaining that area So you just got Tonya’s tip wipe down the washer and dryer regularly to prevent that dust buildup ? Clean out the lint trap after every load ? Kim had a roommate who didn’t know you were supposed to do that. She she went on vacation 

Kim went on vacation and she comes back and she’s like, guys, this is a fire hazard. So I will tell you, if you take nothing else from this, clean out your vent, clean out your lint trap. Like, please, please, ? And regularly check behind the machines for stray socks or lint. ? We’ve gotten down there with like a flashlight just to see. And I will tell you, I… 

Tonya Kubo (21:35) 

Hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (21:42) 

I’m not short, but I’m not tall. I’m a little bit taller than the average American woman. I’m 5’6″. And one of the things that’s really helped me is because washing machines now are built so they’re so, so deep. I keep a pair of barbecue tongs in the laundry room so I can reach that little tiny sock that’s all the way in the back. yeah, that’s… 

I that has been very very helpful and I use that to grab things behind it and then Run that cleaning cycle on your washing machine with a wash cleaner. It really really does help Okay, so as we promised we’re talking about the link to the laundry post. So ? a few days ago I Admitted that I don’t sort my clothes and 

People kept saying, can’t do that. They’re gonna become so dingy and so dark and your clothes are gonna be so gross. Okay, Tonya, have you ever seen me be dingy in my life? I am not a dingy person, okay? So I reject that in the name of Jesus Christ. now people have very, very big feelings. What were some of the reactions you saw, Tonya? 

Tonya Kubo (22:43) 

No. ? 

Hahaha 

you 

But how I would sum it up is people have big feelings about laundry. And I think we see this a lot of times with our cluttery community, right? Is so many of us were raised in homes where there is a way, you know, there is the right way and then everything else is wrong and only idiots do it that way. And apparently like laundry brings that side out of everybody. 

Kathi Lipp (23:17) 

Yes. 

It really does. It’s I hadn’t. Yeah. 

Tonya Kubo (23:24) 

Because I have to, 

I just want to tell you, Kathi like, I don’t actually care that much about what you do with your laundry, because you know what, I barely care about what I do with my laundry. But people, people are passionate about how other people do their laundry. That’s what I’m going to say. 

Kathi Lipp (23:37) 

Yes. 

It’s really wild isn’t it? It’s very very wild. So here’s what I’ll say I’m gonna put a link to this in the show notes ? And I think I think you guys are going to enjoy reading that now right after I posted that because people were good I would say they’re getting heated but they were getting a little tiny some people were getting a little tiny judgy and Or they were saying, you know, could never do that. And so 

Tonya Kubo (23:53) 

Mm-hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (24:12) 

This is how I’d like to reframe it for those of us who feel very religious about how we do laundry. If you are doing micro loads, like, you know, I my blues and my purples because, you know, that’s just that’s how I’ve always said and you are not overwhelmed by that. Go off you, you quiet queen. I love that for you. I love that you have so much calm in your life. 

Tonya Kubo (24:28) 

Mm-hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (24:41) 

And I have never experienced that level of calm in my life. And so if you’re looking for ways to maybe change some things up, try washing dangerously. Like I have no problem. If I’ve got a new pair of jeans, I’m throwing a color catcher in there. And that color catcher is going to absorb that. Now, if you’re like, no, I’ve had these kinds of jeans before. They have such a dark dye. 

They bleed for weeks. I don’t know why you would still buy those jeans, ? do what’s going to work for you. But that doesn’t mean just because it worked for your mom, it’s the best system. And so I want us to have laundry freedom, Tonya. This is really my siren call. 

Tonya Kubo (25:25) 

I’m just telling you, Kathi, we haven’t seen this level of controversy since I came out on this podcast about not using a top sheet in my bed. Do you remember that? Yeah, it’s okay. 

Kathi Lipp (25:36) 

Yeah, okay. I still have a little judgment for you. No, I know it’s very 

European. I really do It’s okay. You know what? Here’s the thing Tonya, I never have to sleep in your bed Yeah, so it’s all good. It’s all good Yeah, when I did I will say when we were traveling to new york and we got an airbnb and there was no top sheet on it I I was like, yeah 

Tonya Kubo (25:42) 

Hahaha 

You were like Tonya was 

here first! 

Kathi Lipp (26:06) 

Yes, exactly. This is not for me. This is not for me. This is not for me. ? Okay, guys, we’re going to take a break and we’re going to come back and I’m going to talk about ? something that has earned a spot in my clutter free home. ? We are going to have such a great conversation with Julie Abenga. I never pronounce her name right. I never pronounce the same the twice. 

But she said that that was fine. She has a new book called Declutter Your Heart and Your Home, How a Minimalist Life Yields Maximum Joy. And it’s such a great conversation. You’re gonna love it. Okay, so we will be right back. 

Kathi Lipp (00:00) 

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. 

And guys, if you have been a listener to this podcast for any length of time, you know I am not a minimalist. You know that I might even be described by some people as a maximalist, but I’ve been able to take my maximalism, woo, if that’s even a word, and coexist with it in a joyful way. But I know some of you really desire to live a more minimalist life. 

and have I got the guest for you. You guys, her name is Julia Ubbenga and she has this, you guys, it’s a fantastic new book, Declutter Your Heart and Your Home, How a Minimalist Life Yields Maximum Joy. guys, she is all about the joy. Julia, welcome to the podcast. We’re so grateful you’re here. 

Julia Ubbenga (01:01) 

Thank you, Kathi, It’s wonderful to be here talking with you today. 

Kathi Lipp (01:04) 

? Yeah, I, you know, like I told you before the show, we don’t have a lot of people on who are talking about decluttering because as a cluttering person, I love to collect other decluttering systems and things like that. But I could not get over your story. And so I’m just, I don’t know that I’ve ever just jumped in and said, hey, tell me your story. But that’s what I’m doing it today because your path to minimalism. 

I feel like is really unique but also kind of universal in many ways in what you’ve gone through. So tell me more about that. 

Julia Ubbenga (01:38) 

Yeah, so I have not always been a minimalist. Pretty far from it actually. I’m an unlikely minimalist, you could say. And my story starts in childhood. I grew up close to my grandma and my grandma loved to shop. She would buy things whether she needed it or not. It was her love language to give people gifts, to give me gifts. And so we’d stroll the malls together and I I soon learned that shopping was fun. It was a way to feel good. It was a way not to feel bad to kind of cover up hard feelings. 

And so I carried this mindset with me into my twenties. I started making money. I started spending money and pretty soon I had all this stuff and $40,000 worth of consumer debt. Yeah. So when I thought about this debt, I felt bad, but when I felt bad, I’d go buy something new because that’s what I thought would make me feel good and make me feel happy. And so this cycle, it continued up until the time our second daughter was born. And I was working outside the home as a speech language pathologist at the time. 

Kathi Lipp (02:28) 

You 

Julia Ubbenga (02:37) 

but I’d always wanted to stay home with our kids. So that was my dream to be a stay at home mom. And my husband got a promotion at the time and I could stay home. I was so excited, but I had this really idyllic vision of what stay at home mom life would be like. thought, yeah, I thought my daughters and I would be snuggled on the couch, reading Little House on the Prairie, would be giggling over tea parties. In my mind, it was just going to be great. Well, a couple of weeks into the stay at home mom gig, I would not even called myself a stay at home mom. I would have said, 

Kathi Lipp (02:51) 

right? 

Julia Ubbenga (03:07) 

A full-time stuff manager would have been a better title because Kathi, that is what I did. I was constantly looking for things and picking things up and cleaning things, tripping over things that I hadn’t picked up yet. It was just all consuming. was exhausted. I was stressed. I couldn’t really be present to the people around me. Like I was there, but I wasn’t really there as distracted and just, I was overwhelmed. So. 

Kathi Lipp (03:13) 

Yeah. 

Mm-hmm. 

Yeah. 

Julia Ubbenga (03:33) 

A couple months into living this way, I was diagnosed with postpartum depression. And I remember this morning where I was up in the nursery in the recliner chair. I was feeding our baby and I was talking with God, really pleading with God. was like, God, what is going on here? This isn’t what I signed up for. Something needs to change. And I was reading the Bible and a couple of verses from Luke chapter 12. They just jumped off the page at me and they said, your life. 

Kathi Lipp (03:39) 

? 

Julia Ubbenga (04:02) 

does not consist of possessions, be rich in what matters. And so I paused right there and I asked myself, was I rich in what mattered? Was I rich in relationships, time for a faith life, time for hobbies that I loved? And no, the answer was absolutely not, I wasn’t. So that planted the seed that something in my life in the area of possessions needed to change. But I didn’t know what, I didn’t know where to go from there. And that same week, I had a therapy appointment. 

And at the end of the session, just as I was leaving, the therapist said, Julia, have you ever heard of minimalism? I’m like, you mean houses with white walls and next to nothing in them. And she’s like, no, there’s more to it than that. Look into it. I think you might be interested. So I was curious and I did a Google search there in the car just right after the session and realized that there’s a lot of resources about minimalism. So I started reading books and blogs and listening to podcasts about it. And this idea. 

that I didn’t need all this stuff to be happy. And in fact, I’d be a whole lot happier with less of it because then I’d have more time and energy to focus on who and what mattered. It was a mindset shift that was life-changing. And it finally gave me a vision of how to get out from under all this stress and anxiety that I was feeling at the time. So I went all in on minimalism. I started a blog at the time. I called it Rich in What Matters after the Bible verse that spoke to me. 

And we let go of 75 % of our stuff over the course of the first year. And then we downsized to an apartment home and got rid of our consumer debt. We built our own intentionally smaller new home. And so yeah, we’ve been living as a minimalist family for six years now, and we have five kids ages 11, seven, four, three, and three months. And yeah, and now I have this book that I’ve written, Declutter Your Heart in Your Home, How a Minimalist Life Yields Maximum Joy. 

Kathi Lipp (05:45) 

Wow. 

Julia Ubbenga (05:52) 

Because I want to give other people the tools to live less stuff, to live a lighter life if they feel called to do that. 

Kathi Lipp (06:00) 

Okay, first of all, birthing a baby in a book at the same time, I give you major props, my friends. I think that there are a lot of people out there who say, this sounds amazing. To not be dealing with my stuff all the time, to not be shuffling it from one room to another, to not spend my entire life picking up and putting away and all of that. 

Julia Ubbenga (06:06) 

Thank you. 

Kathi Lipp (06:26) 

What does practical minimalism actually look like in everyday life? What can you give me like one or two practices or mindset shifts that have made the biggest impact for you? 

Julia Ubbenga (06:39) 

Yeah, that’s a great question. Well, I think that minimalism itself is misunderstood, that it’s about more than just your stuff. So if we’re talking mindset, minimalism is just a tool to live your life with intention. And so it’s about letting go of the things in your life that don’t matter, to make space in your life for the things that do matter. And that does apply to your possessions, but it also applies to your calendar commitments, to your self-talk thoughts, your thought patterns. 

So it’s you’re constantly discerning what are you letting into your life? And then if it’s not supporting your life, it’s not aligned with your values, if it’s not serving you, you’re letting it go. And so practically this would look like keeping a calendar that doesn’t have half-hearted commitments on it. ? It would also just mean you’re constantly looking around at your things in your home wondering, this still serving me? Is this distracting me from my present life? 

? you know, what matters to me from my kids, from my spouse, is it distracting me? Is it taking my time and my energy and attention? Or is it helping me better connect with them? So I think it’s really just you’re kind of the gatekeeper of your home and your world and just discerning what you let into it. 

Kathi Lipp (07:49) 

Yeah, I would say as I am on this journey, because it will always be a journey for me. I’m never going to be in a finished space, but this spot where I am more comfortable in my home than I’ve ever been before, but what I’m also noticing is, I don’t know that I’ll ever be a minimalist, but it’s the same questions. Is this still serving me? And I think we all have different levels of 

Julia Ubbenga (07:56) 

Yes. 

Yes. 

Kathi Lipp (08:19) 

the amount of stuff around us that makes us comfortable or more importantly uncomfortable at you know the the not disease like a sickness but the dis-ease in our lives because I feel like I’m being suffocated or I can’t find what I need. I would love to know from you what was the overwhelming feeling before you started on this minimalist path? 

and contrast that with what does it feel like now. When you wake up in the morning and you look around, what was the feeling you had before and what is it now? 

Julia Ubbenga (09:01) 

That’s a great question. So I think that before minimalism when I’d wake up the more in the morning and look around I Felt like the home had the upper hand like I would look at a mess and I was like I have no idea when I am going to find the time to even start taking care of that and I would feel stressed and I would feel anxious even ? and So now when I look around and I see a mess definitely we have messes We have five kids, but I see the messes and they’re manageable. They’re easily tidied 

Kathi Lipp (09:26) 

Right. 

Julia Ubbenga (09:30) 

They don’t have the upper hand. don’t spark that same feeling of overwhelm in me. It’s more of a mindset shift of where, ? okay, there’s a mess there and I can take care of that in five minutes later when I’m done playing with my kids. And so, yeah, so it’s just this idea that you are feeling good in your home. You’re not overwhelmed by your home and that just helps you become more present to the people around you in your home. 

Kathi Lipp (09:42) 

Yeah. 

Guys, even if your goal isn’t to be a minimalist, what I love about this book is it will help you develop a minimalist mindset that says, I don’t have to keep things out of fear, guilt, or shame. I don’t have to keep things because somebody gave them to me. And here’s what I love. You talk about your grandmother with such love and respect that you knew that that was her love language. And you can also say, 

I received that from my grandmother, but I don’t have to carry it forward. And I love that. Julia, I would love, as we are wrapping up here, one or two practical things that somebody can do today to start developing this mindset. Is it a practice? ? What is it that would help somebody get started with this today? 

Julia Ubbenga (10:49) 

Well, a super practical thing that I love is just getting a quick decluttering win and going and clearing off the front of your fridge or maybe just keeping one or two of your favorite things on it. And the reason I say go tackle the front of your fridge is because there’s a study done at UCLA and in it they found that the average fridge in a home has 52 items on it. And there was a connection between the amount of stuff on a fridge and the amount of clutter in a home. So if your goal is to live a clutter free life, 

then clear off that front of your fridge, something you see very often, and you’ll see that. And that can be a reminder that can help you shift your mindset that, hey, I am not gonna live in a cluttered home anymore. I see that clear fridge and I am going to live a clutter-free life. 

Kathi Lipp (11:35) 

Julia, I love that you and I referenced the same UCLA study. Have you read that book? I love that book so much. Guys, if you don’t know what we’re talking about, I can’t remember the name of the book. Maybe you do. ? If you don’t, it’s okay. I will put it in the show notes. But they went and lived basically with dozens and dozens of families to study clutter in homes around the LA area mostly. 

Julia Ubbenga (11:40) 

Yes, it’s a great one. Yes, I have it at home. Me too. 

hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (12:06) 

And ? first of all, if you read that book, you’re going to realize you are not weird, you are normal. I don’t care how much clutter you have in your home. If you are below hoarder, you are normal. But also talking about cortisone levels in women who live with a lot of stuff. And Julia, I know for me, and I can already tell from speaking with you that our cortisone levels changed as we decluttered. 

I don’t have any scientific proof of that, but the feeling of not being on edge all the time is life changing, isn’t it? 

Julia Ubbenga (12:40) 

Yes. 

It is life-changing. is. Yeah. I think the book is called life at home in the 21st century. Does that ring a bell? Yeah. It just came to me. Yeah. And it is such a life-changing experience to not being on, not to be on edge in your home all the time. And I think that actually makes your nervous system shift out of that fight or flight response that we get stuck in so much. And that has implications for our health, Kathi. mean, stress and nervous system dysregulation can lead to health problems. And so. 

Kathi Lipp (12:49) 

Yes, yes, yes, exactly. Yeah. 

Julia Ubbenga (13:14) 

It goes deeper than, yeah. 

Kathi Lipp (13:14) 

And 

we discount those health dangers in women. We know about it for men, but heart disease and from stress is a huge factor for a lot of women. And so I love that we are having this conversation. And while you and I come at it from different levels, the heart is the same. We want you to be at peace in your home. And guys, ? 

Julia Ubbenga (13:22) 

Mm-hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (13:44) 

? This is such a great read and it’s gonna be so if you found Julia inspirational and I know my listeners I know you found her inspirational today. You said I want a piece of that ? Guys, you know this segment things that have earned a space in my clutter free home And this book has declutter your heart and your home how to how a minimalist life yields maximum joy We’ll have a link in our show notes 

Julia thanks for being on today. This this book is a treasure. I’m gonna read it again I’m gonna pass it along to a friend who I know also needs to hear your words. I’m so grateful for you today 

Julia Ubbenga (14:23) 

Thank you so much for having me on, Kathi. It was a fun conversation. 

Kathi Lipp (14:26) 

And friends, I’m just so grateful you’ve been here today. You’ve been listening to Clutter-Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter-free life you’ve always wanted to live.