#631 Holiday Headstart: 5 More Tips for a Relaxed Season

#631 Holiday Headstart: 5 More Tips for a Relaxed Season

by | Aug 20, 2024 | Christmas, Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Fear, Freedom, Home, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

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631 Holiday Headstart: 5 More Tips for a Relaxed Season

Do you ever say you’ll start holiday prep early, but then suddenly it’s December and you’re in a tinsel-covered panic? Well, no more!

In this episode, Kathi and co-host Tonya Kubo dive into part two of their discussion on preparing for the holidays in August. They offer practical advice for early holiday planning. Kathi and Tonya emphasize the importance of considering family needs, budgeting, and self-care in the planning process.

Listeners will discover:

  • How to plan for those perfect holiday photos
  • How to plan for budget-friendly holiday travel
  • How to create a realistic holiday decor plan (even if your husband Roger thinks there’s no such thing as too many Christmas lights.)

Throughout the episode, Kathi and Tonya offer relatable anecdotes and practical strategies to help listeners reduce holiday stress by planning ahead.

Kathi shares her love for early holiday meal planning and cookbook perusing in this episode. She mentions one of her favorite recipes called Raclette. Check out Raclette photos in the banner as well as the recipe below!

 Raclette

3 to 7 oz. raclette cheese per person, sliced to fit the small trays under the raclette grill. (We find this at Trader Joe’s and at some of the fancier stores from around November through February, and we’ve even found it on Amazon.)

4 to 6 potatoes new potatoes per person, boiled with the skins on. (You have better things to do with your life than peel tiny potatoes.)

Optional Ingredients: Everything else is what you like or have on hand. That’s the beauty of this meal—you get to make it what you love. Here are some ideas: bacon, beef fillet, thickly sliced, pork sausage, zucchini, thickly sliced, mushrooms, grape tomatoes, white pearl onions, bell peppers, thickly sliced, cornichons or pickled gherkins (traditional dinners call for sweet pickles, but we only use dill), pickled baby corn, asparagus, crusty hearty bread, barbecue sauce or ketchup (I have found this to be a game changer)

Directions

1. Turn the raclette grill on to medium-high heat.

2. If you are using bacon, place the slices on the grill plate and cook to your liking.

3. Use the bacon fat to cook the other ingredients. (If you are not using bacon, simply brush the grill plate with some olive oil.)

4. Place some meat and vegetables on the hot grill plate. (When we have vegetarians or vegans visiting, we use two grills. You could even just use a tabletop skillet for the veggies and the raclette skillet for the cheese and meat.)

5. While the meat and vegetables are cooking on the grill plate, place slices of raclette cheese on the small trays and put them under the heating element.

6. Slice or smash the potatoes on your plate. Scrape the melted raclette cheese out of the tray and serve it over the warm potatoes. It is also common to place the melted cheese over the cooked vegetables. Some people even put slices of potatoes into the handled trays so that the cheese melts directly on top.

About eight people can use one raclette set at a time. This is a warm, hearty dinner that is a universal hit at our house and with our guests.

If you want to keep the whole meal on the tabletop, you can even use it to prepare dessert. Just clean off the grill and roast marshmallows over it to create tabletop s’mores. (Is there a better way to end a meal than with chocolate and marshmallows?)

Did you miss part one of this conversation? Click #630 Plan Now, Relax Later: 5 August Tips for a Peaceful Christmas 

Would you like to receive an early Christmas gift? Join the Clutter Free Facebook Group where they will provide you with a download of all 10 Planning Tips! Remember,. Remember, you can’t join the CFA Facebook Group without answering the membership questions. It’s how we keep it the kindest corner of the internet.

Click here to be notified when the next episode is released.

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

www.Tonyakubo.com

Raclette cheese

 

 

 

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What do you do in August that helps you make the holidays stress free?

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Meet Our Guest 

 

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

 

Tonya Kubo Picture
Transcript

Kathi Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more

And I am back with co -host of Clutterfree Academy. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya!

Tonya Kubo (00:33.21)

Hey, Kathi!

Kathi (00:35.134)

I’m excited. Okay. You know, I was super excited last week about Our 10 tips for a stress -free holiday. We we got through five last week I’m finally getting smarter in my old age not trying to do 10 tips in one episode Like let’s break because then we have super size episodes and you have to go back. No, no, no We just we started we knew this was gonna be a two episode series, but we’re talking in August about

what to do to prepare for Christmas and Thanksgiving and all the holidays in the winter. And why are we doing that, Tonya? Why are we just that organized and type A and so on top of it?

Tonya Kubo (01:18.478)

No, but we wish we were. Actually, the reason we’re doing it is because we cluttery people need time to plan to plan, right? So when it comes in October, it is two months too late. We need time in August to make some decisions, sit with those decisions, recover from the effort of making the decisions so that then when push comes to shove, October, November, we’ve already know what we’re doing and then we just forge ahead.

Kathi (01:20.188)

We do.

Kathi (01:27.09)

Yes.

Kathi (01:47.354)

And that’s what we need. need some time, space, and we need to take care of our future selves because otherwise it all comes down to us. I know how these things

Tonya Kubo (01:57.82)

Right, and so because it all comes down to us, I am gonna jump us right in. If you didn’t catch the last episode, I just encourage you to go back and look at it. It should be pretty easy to find in the player that you’re listening to. Or head over into Clutterfree Academy, our free Facebook group, because we have a download with all 10 tips. It’s called 10 Decisions to Make in August for a Less Stressed Holiday. That’s waiting for you there right now. Kathi, just take it away

Tip number six.

Kathi (02:28.83)

Yeah, so we talked about are you gonna do Christmas cards or not? And both decisions are 100 % fine, friends. But if you are gonna do Christmas cards and you want a picture of your family, or if you just want a cute Christmas picture to put up on social media or to hang up in your house without sending Christmas cards, that’s allowed too. It actually is. And

Also, our vet, if we didn’t give them a picture of moose each year, there would be a revolt. So maybe they do that just to make us feel good, but I don’t care. It does make me feel good. So now is the time to make plans for that Christmas picture. Now, maybe plans are, hey, we took this great picture on our vacation. Let’s use that. That is a perfectly acceptable picture. Our Christmas card last year, somebody came to our house and took a great picture of moose.

holding one of her toys and she looks a little mischievous. And so we just, we knew that that was the perfect card. So, or maybe you want to get a professional set of pictures taken of you and your family. All of these are options in August. But as we get closer to November, our options get

And then we’re sending out for Christmas cards on December 1st. We get them back on the 15th. We don’t have time to send them out. And then we have 200 Christmas cards that we’re like, well, maybe next year. So now is the time to take the picture, okay? And we do have, what is your favorite tip for taking a great picture? Do you have one? I’ll tell you mine and then you can tell me yours. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (04:01.254)

Right.

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (04:16.954)

Sure.

Kathi (04:18.578)

So I think the best pictures are where people feel comfortable. And so not so staged, not so posed. We just did a whole photo shoot here at the Red House. And Tenille, our photographer, kept telling us how great we looked. And if your photographer is not doing that, you need to find a new photographer. So also if you’re a parent, especially of a tween or teen,

and you just want to, you know, to be able to say, hey, you look great or have somebody else tell them they look great. That would be my go -to move. Okay, how about you, Tonya?

Tonya Kubo (04:54.108)

I was gonna say my tip is take 400 pictures because one of them is bound to look good. right? Because the more people you have, the harder it is to make sure everybody is looking at the camera at the same time with their eyes

Kathi (04:57.946)

Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

Kathi (05:10.096)

It’s so true. And I think the other thing to say on that is, boy, just wear something comfortable. The best pictures are where you’re wearing jeans and you feel great.

Tonya Kubo (05:16.144)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (05:19.824)

Yep, that is so true. All right, Kathi, go ahead and give us tip number seven.

Kathi (05:26.278)

Okay, it’s time to plan for Christmas travel. So if you’re gonna be flying cross country, if you need an Airbnb, you need hotel rooms, you need flights, now is the time to get that information nailed down. Can I tell you just the mistake we made recently? Roger and I were gonna do this big, big, big trip and we’re like, okay, we think we can save enough money for this. It’s gonna be tight.

Tonya Kubo (05:48.934)

Sure.

Kathi (05:56.038)

You know with the flights and the everything we’re doing, but I think we can do that so we we went ahead and booked we got the travel insurance and Then we looked at the flights Holy cow, Tonya. I had no idea how it’s an international flight. I had no idea I had no idea so We’ve made the hard decision to not go until we think we’re gonna do like in five years because we want more time

to gather our pennies together. So instead of our 20th anniversary, this will be a great 25th anniversary. We’re gonna do something fun and fabulous for 20 years. But start to get those numbers into your head now. Start to look for flights now. Maybe sign up for a flight tracker to see if the cost goes down. Get an idea of what hotels or Airbnbs are gonna cost in that area of the country or the world, whatever that is.

Tonya Kubo (06:27.578)

Right.

Kathi (06:55.568)

Start to nail some of that information down now so you’re not in a panic in November. Now, you don’t travel for holidays usually, do you? Okay, so for you, it’s just, should we clean out the car or not, right?

Tonya Kubo (07:04.567)

Not usually, no.

Tonya Kubo (07:11.072)

Yeah, well for me, so I have a couple of relatives that live in other states, right? So our big thing is, yes, should we clean out the car or not? The other thing that we have, if we’re road tripping, because that does happen sometimes, when the girls were younger, especially, it’s nap time. When are you going to leave, right? When do you leave the house? When do you plan to come back? You know, because ideally, if you’re doing the holiday thing, somebody else’s house, you don’t want your kids to lose their charm before you have a chance to get them into the

Kathi (07:21.872)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kathi (07:40.73)

Right, Yeah, that charm covers a multitude of sins. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, and this is a great point. You know, for us, we may be RVing this Thanksgiving. And so, like, it’s time to look at those RV spots. It’s time to look at packing, you know, road tripping. What kind of food are we going to bring? Because if you are planning to eat out every meal while you’re road tripping,

Tonya Kubo (07:45.914)

Yeah, yeah.

Kathi (08:09.32)

that’s gonna cost you as much as Christmas. maybe, you know, maybe make those plans now. And also, if it is now the time to discuss, do you want to stay with relatives or is that a terrible idea? We had to, you know, there were some relatives we would have loved to have stayed with them. There were other relatives for other reasons that it was very hard to stay with. So to start preparing people early for those decisions,

is really, really good and

Tonya Kubo (08:41.946)

Yes, yes. Okay. So what is tip number

Kathi (08:48.734)

Now is the time to ask for do you need time off from work? Do you need to make other arrangements? Do you need to offer yourself a sacrifice for Christmas so you can get Thanksgiving off? You know what so start to ask now because you’re starting to plan so early and you’re starting to connect with the people that you’re planning

you might be able to ask earlier than you’ve ever been able to ask before. And if you’re, especially if you’re working someplace like retail or you’re in a hotel or a restaurant situation, getting that time off request in as early as possible or to find out, no, I can’t take time off then. Those are all good things to know. And the earlier you can get that request in,

more likely you are able to do it. This is why I also really suggest if you have any possibility of celebrating on a day other than Christmas or other than Thanksgiving, boy, it alleviates a lot of stress for a lot of people. I know that it’s nice to have that Friday off between Thanksgiving and the weekend, but also the cost of traveling.

Tonya Kubo (09:53.19)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (10:06.085)

That week is extraordinary. The cost, could you take a different set of days off and make it easier on

Tonya Kubo (10:15.644)

Mm -hmm. Excellent tips, excellent tips. And especially, you what’s nice is if you’ve got people who work retail, there’s blackout dates already set, right? So that helps you plan accordingly. I love that. So we need to take a quick break, because as you like to remind me, Kathi, we like to keep the lights on around here, right? So we will be back with tips nine and 10 after our commercial

Kathi (10:24.379)

Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Kathi (10:34.792)

Pay the bills.

Kathi (10:45.456)

Okay, we are back and we are diving right back into our tips. Tonya, I’m just gonna go into nine. This is especially important for the lip household.

Tonya Kubo (10:57.39)

Right, it is not important for the Kubo household. So you go for it, Kathi. Yeah.

Kathi (11:00.424)

You know what, see this is good to know, right? This is good information to know. A holiday decor plan. you know, like Tonya’s like, well that’s easy, no.

And that’s okay. And I think, you know what, if I wasn’t married to Mr. Christmas, that might be my plan too. I might have just a cute little tree off in the corner or something like that. Our first Christmas together, we decided to not celebrate on Christmas because we knew that, we had had a wedding that year and we thought, well, the kids will wanna be with their other parents and that’s fine. So what we did is we bought a two foot,

Christmas tree and we did a road trip to a bunch of different B &Bs and we took that Christmas tree to each B &B and it was perfect. But Roger likes some lighting. He likes to dec… Yes, he likes to decorate the yard. Now since we get free Christmas trees because they’re all in our backyard, we set up three Christmas trees often in our household. And so

Tonya Kubo (11:45.456)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:52.024)

how fun.

Tonya Kubo (11:58.779)

He does.

Tonya Kubo (12:07.099)

Yeah.

Kathi (12:13.938)

For me, it’s very important that we go in having a budget because every year, Tanya, every single year, I think, well, surely we have enough lights. We must have enough lights. His last name is Griswold. I don’t understand it. But yes, every year we go by the lights. So one thing I’m going to insist on this year, insist on is

Tonya Kubo (12:25.04)

You’d never have enough lights for Mr. Lip.

Tonya Kubo (12:39.515)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (12:43.376)

Mr. Lip, we need an inventory of what we have because what often happens is, that might be in the attic or it might be in the storage shed, but I’m not sure. So while we’re here at Home Depot, Lowe’s, Ace Hardware, we might as well get XYZ. No, no. Well, okay, if he really wants to, we will, but.

Tonya Kubo (12:48.42)

yeah.

Tonya Kubo (13:05.04)

Mm -hmm.

No. Yes. I was gonna say yes.

Kathi (13:13.266)

But could we find that information out in August? Or let’s be kind to ourselves even September when it’s not blazing hot in the attic. Could we put a plan together so that we actually know what we have? Do you wanna change up the theme? So in our bedroom, we put up a Christmas tree that’s very Woodland themed. In Roger’s office, we put up a tree that’s very Disney themed.

and then downstairs it’s bright and shiny things. So we know, do we want to change any of that? And then what do we need to do with DIY project? Is there something that we’d like to do? Let’s budget for it now, let’s go in with a plan so we’re not doing last minute things. And I think this is a good, I’m gonna put cooking under this as well. Now it’s harder to plan for cooking four months in advance, but.

Tonya Kubo (13:48.474)

Yeah.

Kathi (14:10.8)

If you’re gonna be trying a bunch of new recipes, does that require a new KitchenAid? Does that require a new thingamajig? What are we doing? Or maybe, for us, we often wanna smoke a turkey. We need to make sure that the barbecue that we’re using, or the Traeger, or whatever we’re doing, is in proper working order if we haven’t been using it.

Tonya Kubo (14:25.285)

Kathi (14:35.698)

Because I cannot tell you the number of times we’ve gone to use the thing and we haven’t used it for nine months and the thing maybe had some friends living in it. Let’s check that out. Let’s not be surprised. How about that? Let’s not be surprised.

Tonya Kubo (14:53.341)

That’s a surprise you never want, but it’s so much better to have it in August than it is to have it like the week before you plan to use

Kathi (14:57.956)

Right? Right, especially if you’re snowed in. Now you have to dig your way. Yeah, there’s just a million reasons to check early

Tonya Kubo (15:07.14)

I was like, hear the emotional scarring from your past experiences, Kathi.

Kathi (15:09.679)

my goodness. Yeah, ask me how I know, friends. Ask me how I know. No, actually don’t ask me, trauma. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (15:13.722)

Ahahaha!

Tonya Kubo (15:17.36)

No. All right, Kathi, give us tip number

Kathi (15:21.15)

Okay, this may be the most important one, the most important one. really, one through nine is leading up to 10. And this is just, it’s gonna sound very new agey, self -care and boundaries, self -care and boundaries. Think back with your spouse, your kids, your parents. Was last year’s Christmas just a little too long?

Tonya Kubo (15:36.678)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (15:50.492)

Were there a few too many people? Were there a few too many dishes that were required to be made? I really believe in saying, know, one thing I’ve learned, I used to think, it’s less stress for me to make all the food because I have control over when things are happening in my kitchen. No, that was just me being a little bit of a control

It’s so much better to say, you know what, you’re really good. Like my sister -in -law, this is an underrated talent. She makes the best salads in the world. I don’t know anybody who makes a better salad than Lucinda Richardson. I don’t know anybody. So let Lucinda bring the salad. Beg her to bring the salad. Let people contribute. If people are saying,

Hey, Kathi, I would love for you to do your Raclette. I’d say, yes, that would be great. Would you bring the Raclette cheese? Yes, I’d be happy to do that. But you know what? I have a lot of people who live closer to Whole Foods than I do. And that’s a Whole Foods item. To be able to say, you know what? This year, we’re not going to be able to go to three different family events in a short amount of time. You were talking about this with your kids.

You know, do we need to be aware of nap time and travel time? And thinking, you know, as adults, sometimes we can, but we shouldn’t suck it up. But kids, they’re not known for their suck it up abilities, right? So to be able to say, you know what, our first day, and we’ve done this when we travel now, our first day, hey, our whole job is just to get there and then go to the hotel and order some food.

Tonya Kubo (17:22.854)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (17:26.897)

right?

Kathi (17:41.914)

and not be on for anybody. And that’s a beautiful thing. And that’s what I think we need to say, you know what, I’m gonna be better on Thursday, Friday and Saturday if it went on Wednesday. It’s just me and the people I love because we can figure it out. We can sleep in, we can do what we need to do. But to just say

Do we say no to overwhelming commitments? And one way for me to do that, and I would love to hear any tips you have, Tonya, because you guys are really good at boundaries, is we just got an invitation today to one of our favorite humans’ 30th birthdays. The 30 -year -old is inviting us to their birthday and we’re not related to them. I feel highly honored. But instead of saying, of course we’ll be there, I said, let me check with Roger. Because I just need to know.

What’s gonna make him most comfortable? What’s gonna be the best thing? It sounds precious of us, but also sometimes I forget, oh wait, we’ve got a big deadline the day before. So it just says, hey, let me check the calendar and let me check with my significant other and we’ll get back to you. And if I get back within 24 hours, no harm, no foul. So what’s a good way for you that you have set boundaries around the holidays?

Tonya Kubo (18:40.678)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (18:53.046)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (18:58.702)

Yeah, so it’s interesting having kids who are growing up, right? Because what I discovered the hard way is, you know, they have school events, if they have extracurricular activities, oftentimes there’s holiday events associated with that. Like, Brian and I do not have the luxury of complete control over our calendars, even outside of work. And so for us,

A lot of it has to do with if it involves school. ask like as soon as back to school night is, which is late August, I will be asking, do you have a calendar of all events for the fall? Do you have a calendar for the whole academic year? You know, we’re recording this and it’s not quite August yet because that’s how you get August episodes, folks, if you record them before August. And I just found out

Kathi (19:37.98)

Yeah

Kathi (19:46.727)

Right?

Tonya Kubo (19:51.064)

there’s a mandatory commitment for Lily that runs for the next eight days. And by the way, we’re out of town, right? Yeah, exactly. And so I am learning now, okay, so I need to set some boundaries and say, we’re a family that has to plan ahead and we are more than happy to show up to mandatory events. However, you’re gonna need to get us those dates right now. And so again, just to kind of like tie that up in a bow, what I would say is for the school stuff, I ask for the calendars.

Kathi (19:56.263)

What?

Tonya Kubo (20:19.642)

Like early, I ask often. And then when it comes to the personal commitments, I pretty much just tell folks, know, let me check my calendar. And if I can make it, say, I’m gonna make every attempt to be there. However, you know that schools are really good about spring and last minute stuff on you. So if I have to shift it, I’ll let you know. And then I leave it at

Kathi (20:40.988)

Yeah, yeah, it’s really smart because yeah, there are so many competing priorities and whoever made that mandatory last minute commitment, unless they’re paying you, no, that’s crazy, that’s just crazy. I love these and I think that our community is gonna have some really great ideas about what to do in August to make things easier.

Tonya, know one of the things I like, and here’s one of my little gifts to myself in August, is that I’m a cookbook peruser. I like to dive into a good cookbook and I’m gonna start planning my meals for the holidays early in August because that’s something I enjoy. That’s not something everybody enjoys, but I do. So I’m gonna have my little stack and I’m going to spend some time perusing.

Tonya Kubo (21:19.11)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (21:31.097)

Right.

Kathi (21:37.392)

and just bring some delight and it’s gonna make me look forward to the holidays more because I, yeah, I’m excited about that. This is, yeah, and like I said, our Facebook group is gonna have so many great ideas because they’ve all done this. They bought the t -shirts for sure.

Tonya Kubo (21:46.181)

I love that.

Tonya Kubo (21:56.348)

That is true. And as a reminder about the Facebook group, if you’re not in there, you want to be in there because we’re going to put a download with all tips this episode and last episode. It’s going to be called 10 Decisions to Make in August for a Less Stressed Holiday. And Kathi is so good about reminding you this. If you are requesting to join the group, please answer the questions. If you don’t answer the questions, we don’t let you in. We want that community to be as kind as possible. All right, Kathi, anything else you want to add?

Kathi (22:16.627)

Yes.

Kathi (22:26.392)

No, I just want to say thank you for listening. Tonya, thank you for leading us so well. And friends, thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to Clutter -Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the Clutter -Free life you were always designed to live.

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#630 Plan Now, Relax Later: 5 August Tips for a Peaceful Christmas

#630 Plan Now, Relax Later: 5 August Tips for a Peaceful Christmas

by | Aug 13, 2024 | Christmas, Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Fear, Freedom, Home, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

630 Plan Now, Relax Later: 5 August Tips for a Peaceful Christmas

Do you feel stressed out during the holidays? Trust us, your future self will thank you for listening to this episode.

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and co-host Tonya Kubo discuss the importance of making key decisions in August to ensure a less stressful holiday season. Kathi and Tonya emphasize the benefits of early planning, such as reduced stress, better financial management, and more time to enjoy the holiday season. They share personal anecdotes and practical advice, making the episode both relatable and actionable for listeners.

Listeners will discover:

  • How to decide on holiday gathering dates, locations, and participants early to avoid last-minute conflicts.
  • How to plan gift exchanges, considering family dynamics and financial situations.
  • How to set a realistic holiday budget, including categories like gifts, food, and decorations.

So grab a cool drink, find a comfy spot, and listen in on how to get started on making this Christmas your most organized and enjoyable one yet!

Would you like to receive an early Christmas gift? Join the Clutter Free Facebook Group where they will provide you with a download of all 10 Planning Tips! Remember, you can’t join the CFA Facebook Group without answering the membership questions. It’s how we keep it the kindest corner of the internet.

Click here to be notified when part 2 of this episode is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

 

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

www.Tonyakubo.com

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Meet Our Guest 

 

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

 

Tonya Kubo Picture
Transcript

Kathi (00:01.084)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with the co -hostess with the mostest, it is Tonya Kubo. Hey Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (00:47.113)

Yay!

Tonya Kubo (01:08.736)

Hey, Kathy.

Kathi (01:10.444)

I’m excited about today’s episode. feel like as we’re planning ahead, nothing makes me feel like so smart as planning ahead, as pre -deciding, as getting decisions out of the way so that August Kathi is a hero in November Kathi’s eyes. And that’s what we’re gonna do for each of our listeners today. So I’m gonna turn it over to you because my excitement is gonna spill out so much. not even.

Let’s just admit it, I had trouble doing the intro today. I was so excited about this.

Tonya Kubo (01:43.165)

I was just saying, you’re so excited that you have 400 words trying to come out of your mouth at the same

Kathi (01:48.873)

All at the same time, but let’s let’s dive in. Let’s do

Tonya Kubo (01:52.954)

Okay, so what we’re actually talking about is Christmas. And if you are like me, I was gonna say, if you’re grinchy like I am, you’re like, seriously, what is this? But here is something that I know from several years of leading Clutterfree Academy and our Clutterfree for Life membership program, Kathy, and that is that we cluttery people have a true biological need

Kathi (01:58.737)

Yes! Yay! In August!

Tonya Kubo (02:22.22)

to plan to plan. See, Christmas planning in October is about two months too late for most of us.

Kathi (02:29.754)

It really is for us cluttering friends, yes.

Tonya Kubo (02:33.346)

So what we are going to do is this is a two part episode, I believe, and we are going to be it has to be because because I wrote out 10 tips and you wrote out 10 tips and that’s 20 and we’re only going to give you 10 folks. We’re only going to give you 10. So can we just get started, Kathi? I want you to jump right in with what is your first tip when it comes to making a decision in August to have a stress free

Kathi (02:37.892)

Yes, it has to

Kathi (02:42.49)

Yeah

Kathi (02:46.606)

Right.

Kathi (02:57.112)

Okay, so this may sound so basic and for some of you, this is just gonna be a check mark because you’re gonna say, I host Christmas every year on the 24th and 25th and how awesome to have a life that is that perfectly ordered. But for many of us, that is not our reality because we have in -laws, out -laws, blended families, divorced families, all of that kind of thing. So I would implore

to nail down what you’re celebrating, when you’re celebrating, and where you’re celebrating. So for us, we often don’t celebrate Thanksgiving just because we have four kids, some of them work retail, some of them, you know, they all have these schedules where it’s really hard for them to get away from work. And so we just say, you know what, stay with your families in the Bay Area and we’ll do something fun later

So we don’t really worry about Thanksgiving so much, but sometimes we’ll have friends or other family over and that’s great. But Christmas, Christmas needs to be decided. It’s great if it’s decided a year in advance. We often have everybody show up with their little phones and figure out dates. But if we can’t decide a year in advance, August is when you should be doing that. Because if you

If you have other adults coming to your house or you’re going to theirs, I think four months is a really good timeframe to start nailing all that down. makes a lot of sense. And we have one of our kids who’s like, I can’t plan that far in advance. I’m like, well, if you get a better offer, you go for it. But the rest of us, we need to know. So, you know, he’s never planned an adult family function in his life. So it’s okay.

Tonya Kubo (04:32.928)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (04:51.667)

Right, right well then

Kathi (04:52.452)

So what do you guys

Tonya Kubo (04:55.328)

Well, so we actually are the, how do I put this? Like we can’t, we have a core member of the family that will not be able to tell us when they can celebrate Christmas until sometime around December 15th and they are typically the host. So yeah, so we spent several years not spending Christmas or any holiday with family. We did friend.

Kathi (05:08.367)

Yes.

Kathi (05:13.596)

wow!

Tonya Kubo (05:22.486)

We had some friends and we would just spend holidays with them because they had a similar lifestyle to us. They needed to plan several months in advance. And so we would just book it out. But then as the kids get older, right, it’s harder to like explain why we’re not spending Christmas and Thanksgiving with aunts and uncles and grandparents and all of that stuff. So we try to be fluid, but to some degree there’s like, I can only be so fluid, right?

Kathi (05:49.742)

Right, right. Yeah, and I think that that’s okay to say this is what I’m able to do. So what I do in August, if I haven’t done it already, is say, here is the date range of when you can come hang out with us, and here’s the one day that if you can make it work great. If you can’t, let us know now. But if I don’t hear from you in the next few days, I’m going forward, no turning back.

to get that planted so other people can make their plans, so they can do their shop, so they can do all of that kind of stuff. They can figure out their New Year’s plans. Like we’re celebrating as a family the day after Christmas through the next couple of days. you’ve heard me give this advice a thousand times. You can have everybody celebrate together. You can celebrate on the actual date.

you can have people be happy about it. Pick two out of three. And my preference is to have us all together and people to be happy about it. I don’t care if it’s happening on the actual date, but if you can get that nailed down as soon as possible, I think that that is a really smart thing to

Tonya Kubo (06:58.892)

Mm -hmm. Right.

Tonya Kubo (07:09.082)

Awesome. Okay. So that is really good advice. You covered both the importance of ahead, but also how to handle it when it’s sticky, which is something I appreciate because of course, just because you have a need to plan ahead doesn’t mean everybody else has a need. What would be your second

Kathi (07:24.066)

Right. Okay, so while you’re getting together the date and the time and where, know, whose house it’s going to be at, I think it’s all really great to have that conversation about gift exchange. You know, maybe you guys already have a family or friends tradition that is, but also we had kids who were growing into adults and wanted to set the expectation

Tonya Kubo (07:50.348)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (07:53.852)

Early that hey, we don’t need 75 gifts from anybody, but also maybe as you guys get older We don’t need to give you 75 gifts So we’re pretty much at the place where we do three gifts for everybody except we have one teenager in our family And I’m like no we’re gonna buy her the things that she wants and so to just set that expectation also to set expectation with young adults about You know you do get your grandmother a gift

Come on, be a good human being. Like they, you know, they don’t know sometimes because they’ve always had mom and dad take care of it. And so is there, do you need to pull back on some of that? Maybe because somebody in the family is having some financial constraints. You know, what taking the temperature in August is better than announcing in December what you’re going to do. So do you have like

Tonya Kubo (08:23.82)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (08:48.609)

right.

Kathi (08:50.256)

family code when it comes to gift exchange or is it a free for

Tonya Kubo (08:54.723)

Well, so it’s been a free for all for years and this last year the extended family one of the cousins reached out and was just like it’s ridiculous. I do not want to carry all that stuff home ever again. And so they do a trellis. do a bowling day. In lieu of a gift. So everybody goes and bowls for half a day and then they go to somebody’s house and has dinner.

Kathi (09:07.567)

Yeah.

Kathi (09:11.92)

Mmm. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (09:19.49)

And that’s what they do. And the kids love it. It’s so much better than going home with 32 different bags that they can’t remember who gave them what. It’s just so much more

Kathi (09:30.106)

Yeah, you know, Tonya, you and I both have given birth to children who like to open gifts like that. That’s a big part of what they like. And I don’t want to take that away from them. But to be able to do an experience like that, I think that that is tremendous. And especially if that’s like a cool cousin or aunt or uncle, like, you know, then the kid that’s you’re forming core memories there. That is so, so, so

Tonya Kubo (09:36.096)

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (09:54.995)

Right. And of course, I mean, they still get Christmas gifts here. They still get presents at our house, right? It’s just not having that overwhelming

Kathi (09:59.364)

Yes. Yes.

Yes. I love it. I also think this is a good idea to start kind of putting in your mind when people ask you what you would like for Christmas to start coming up with that list, start making decisions and keeping track. If you’re the parent, maybe keeping track of some of the things that your kids have mentioned and to keep that as a curated list. So grandparents, know, aunts, uncles. And then also, I also like to just keep track of where

Tonya Kubo (10:12.098)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (10:32.74)

be a good gift card for that person. If I’m not coming up with anything specific, what can we do to make them feel just loved and appreciated? Tonya, I think we need to take a quick little break. We need to go pay some bills. We’re going to come back and we’re going to go with number three of our five decisions to make in August to have a less stressed holiday.

Tonya Kubo (10:45.73)

Okay.

Tonya Kubo (10:58.954)

All right, so we are back and Cathy, let’s just jump right into number

Kathi (11:04.718)

Yes. Okay. I think this is a great time for you to have a discussion with your spouse, your partner, your kids, your parents, whomever it is about the holiday budget. this money, money. People would rather talk about money than let’s just say for little ears who are listening, more intimate subjects that I consider more intimate subjects, but, they would rather talk about those more intimate subjects than money.

because money has so much dynamic that’s attached to it. But I think the further out you are from the holiday and gift buying, the easier it is to have those conversations. So have those conversations in August instead of October. And you will take a lot of stress off of people. I, you know, Roger and I will have a budget that includes

Tonya Kubo (11:47.33)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (12:03.66)

a couple of different categories like gifts, entertaining. Entertaining makes it sound fancy. Let’s just say food, okay? One of the core budget items you need to have if you’re married to Roger Lipp is lighting. We have to have a lighting budget each year. So creating those realistic budgets. And one of the things that I wanna talk to Roger about

Tonya Kubo (12:11.511)

Yeah.

Kathi (12:32.728)

August is to start doing kind of like a Christmas club thing Do you remember clip Christmas clubs from like the seven sixty seventies and they well you weren’t around for some of those decades, but Yeah, okay, so I grew up in a time where you could at your bank open a Christmas club account and Okay, okay you do okay, so tell me about that,

Tonya Kubo (12:43.754)

I was gonna say, no.

Tonya Kubo (12:52.885)

yeah, we have

Yeah, we do that. Yeah. So it’s just, it’s a direct deposit every month and it goes into an account and I have mine set up. the regular Christmas club, it dumps the money automatically into your account like Thanksgiving week. And then it’s everything that you’ve saved up for the last year gets dumped into your account Thanksgiving week. And then that’s your money to go Christmas shopping or do whatever. And ours has, you can do Christmas club and you can

vacation club, which your money gets dumped in the summertime. I don’t like the automatic dumping because sometimes I lose track of it, right? Or, you know, Brian goes, woo, windfall. And there went my Christmas budget. So I haven’t set up to where I manually move the money

Kathi (13:30.214)

Cool.

Kathi (13:36.56)

Mm -hmm.

Right

Kathi (13:47.106)

I like the manually moving because you can start to determine, you know, where are we going to put this? What categories are we going to put this into? I love that. Yeah. So I want to, that’s what I want to do next year is to this August say, okay, let’s start setting up, you know, let’s, let’s start in January of next year, start putting some money aside. I, know, Roger gets a bonus most years and that’s usually

Tonya Kubo (13:49.44)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:16.252)

Christmas comes out of. We don’t know that that’s happening this year. So we’re going to need to, you know, do some creative financing, but that’s okay. And I think it’s good to have a realistic budget. Not like I know that we spent $2 ,000 last year, but we need to keep it to 1000 this year. Like, is that really going to work for you? Or what major thing are you going to take out? Roger and I have decided this year not to do Christmas gifts for each other because

Tonya Kubo (14:29.036)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:43.962)

We want to take a trip next year, things like that. think that that is, you know, having those conversations now so you’re not disappointed when the time comes.

Tonya Kubo (14:53.876)

Right, and I’ll just add another one for families. I have several friends that they actually theme their Christmases, and so they alternate. So there’s an electronics Christmas, and then the next year is a reading Christmas. And they only do so many gifts per child, but so that they know they need a little bit more set aside for electronics Christmas, but they spend a lot less on reading Christmas. And so that helps them balance it

Kathi (14:56.302)

Yeah.

Kathi (15:04.467)

Kathi (15:08.562)

okay.

Kathi (15:12.582)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (15:23.55)

on a two year cycle. I love that idea. So I just feel the need to share that with everybody.

Kathi (15:25.24)

Mm, I love that. Yeah. I think that’s so great. Yes. We did, we, when my kids were growing up, we did more of like, okay, there was a reading gift, there were clothes gifts, and then there was that fun gift, which often had a plug. So yes, I think that that, I think having a theme helps you narrow your decisions and helps you pre -decide, which is what this, this whole episode is about. It’s pre

Tonya Kubo (15:37.782)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (15:52.566)

Right. Well, like you said earlier on, right? It’s about making sure that November you likes August version of you and isn’t like cursing the name of August version of you. So Kathi, we are at tip number four. Do you need me to recap? Cause you may have lost track. Okay.

Kathi (16:01.329)

Yes.

Right, absolutely.

Kathi (16:11.036)

No, I’m good. Number four is your Christmas card list. So here’s what I mean by that. Figure out how many Christmas cards you’re gonna send. So the first decision is, are you sending Christmas cards? And go for

Tonya Kubo (16:28.692)

And Kathy Lipp, can I say something right now? That is the best thing ever. That I read your Christmas project planner after my mom had died. And the year that my mom died, when I read that, that gave me permission not to send Christmas cards that year. And I needed that relief so much.

Kathi (16:46.62)

I’m so glad.

Kathi (16:51.45)

Yeah, you know what and here’s the Brilliant thing. It’s not a binary decision It’s not we are a christmas card family or we’re not a christmas card family We’re like an every other year christmas card family now We did send them last year and my plan is to send them this year because if you listen, you know a big thing that’s going on our life on in our lives

Moose has cancer and this is probably her last Christmas with us and I’m not crying and so I want to have a great picture with me and Roger and Moose for our Christmas card and so I’m probably gonna send them this year and even on the years I don’t send them I love receiving them so I’m honored if I’m on your Christmas card list but I also understand the years where I don’t hear from you for a couple of years because life got in the

Tonya Kubo (17:18.028)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (17:45.518)

So I think it’s really a great idea in August because can we just say in December trying to send Christmas cards out, like Christmas is a part -time job.

Tonya Kubo (17:57.983)

It is.

Kathi (17:59.469)

And do we really need administrative tasks in December? No, no. So if you can, just get the list together. We’re talk about the cards and everything like that. But just decide if you’re gonna send them and be okay with not sending them. The other thing you can do, okay, Tonya, I will also say this. If you have some people in your family or like aunts or uncles or grandparents,

Tonya Kubo (18:04.266)

No, no, we do

Kathi (18:29.244)

like they live for the Christmas card, you can also buy a pack of like 10 Christmas cards and just send five of them and it’ll be okay. So you sent Christmas cards to these five people who it really means something to and that’s okay. Yes. I do believe that you will not be arrested. Yes, I do believe.

Tonya Kubo (18:41.372)

What?

Tonya Kubo (18:48.047)

I don’t know. Are you sure? Are you

Tonya Kubo (18:54.3)

okay. That reminds me of Abby. Abby will say, is that legal? Yes, yes, there is no law against not sending Christmas cards or only sending part

Kathi (18:58.926)

Right? Right. Yes, it

Tonya Kubo (00:20.329)

All right, Kathy. So I think we are ready for tip number

Kathi (00:25.942)

Okay, so this is like we’re thinking ahead about the Christmas card list. I also want you to think about the Christmas gift list. Like who are you actually giving gifts to this year? And are there people that maybe it’s time to have a discussion, hey, you know, we keep exchanging Amazon gift cards every year. What if we just went to dinner?

Or what if, you know, like I would rather spend time with you than to feel that obligation. And because I love you, don’t need a gift from you to be, now there are people in our lives we wanna do gifts for, our kids, maybe our parents, brothers, whatever. But get realistic about your Christmas card list. Do you have teachers from your kid’s school that you need to give to? Are there, you know,

Tonya Kubo (01:03.873)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (01:24.)

I also, I’ll put in this and in the Christmas budget some big tips that I give. Like we have a house cleaner that comes, you know, a couple of times a month. That I want to give a big tip to them. We have somebody who comes and helps with chopping down trees and things like that here on the property. We’re going to give them a big tip. Maybe it’s your hairdresser, maybe it’s your nail person. Like I give a big tip to the people who are loyal to me all year and who fit me in.

Tonya Kubo (01:38.135)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (01:53.614)

when it’s inconvenient. Because I want to stay on the nice list, not the naughty list. So do you need to have some hard conversations or maybe not hard conversations? Maybe you’re giving some freedom to people, but there’s advantages to early gift planning. Could you stock up on some things early on? Like I think about this, we’re big believers in stockings. We

Tonya Kubo (01:55.52)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (01:59.515)

Right. Exactly.

Tonya Kubo (02:12.884)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (02:22.135)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (02:22.724)

We like to do stockings for everybody in the family and we do stockings for every animal in the family. And so if I can buy those things, and we’ve got bunnies, we didn’t do them for all the chickens, but we do them for the dogs. Yeah, the quad pets, those are the ones that we’re doing it for. So I wanna get those things not in December. Let’s get those things early and so it’s not impacting us quite so much.

Tonya Kubo (02:35.703)

can understand that.

Kathi (02:50.36)

and I can start wrapping early and things like that. this is also a good time to keep track, to keep a list because it’s easy to forget what you’ve bought when you have a lot of kids and maybe they have their partners and they have their kids and all that kind of stuff. So starting a list either in your phone or an Excel spreadsheet or however you do it. Do you have any ideas for a Christmas gift?

creating the list.

Tonya Kubo (03:18.761)

Yes. Yeah, we all have a Google Doc and we just use the Google Doc all year long. And then when holidays come up, we know what to lean into. And, you know, we’ll have the girls prioritize like a little bit before the holiday. So we have a sense. But it’s really, really nice, especially when they’re younger, to just let them have a place where they can dream and then bring them back down to reality when it comes closer to the day.

Kathi (03:23.114)

okay.

Kathi (03:43.694)

Yeah. She’s speaking from experience because as we’ve recorded this, Sunday was a grand birthday in the Kubo home and there was a lot of dreaming and a lot of bringing back down to earth. But you know what? That’s what we do as parents. We give them wings and then we help them land safely.

Tonya Kubo (03:54.077)

Yes, it was a grand birthday.

Tonya Kubo (03:59.755)

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (04:05.549)

Yes. Okay. So Kathy, we have our five tips. I just want to recap them really quick for everybody. So these are our five August decisions for stress -free holiday. And this is part one. We’ve got five more coming up, don’t we? So the first decision is when and where will you have your holiday gatherings? The second is planning those gift exchanges.

Kathi (04:13.583)

Yeah.

Kathi (04:20.248)

Yes. That’s right, baby.

Tonya Kubo (04:34.391)

Who are we buying gifts for? Who’s buying gifts for us? What do we want to do? A little bit of spoiler alert if you’re just catching us. You know what? Do an experience. It’s just easier on everybody. Number three is set your holiday budget early. The further away that you are from the holiday, the less emotional it is. And I loved your tip, Cathy, about the Christmas club, right? Having a savings account that just manages the Christmas budget for you so you don’t have to stress about it.

Kathi (04:44.803)

It is easier.

Tonya Kubo (05:03.853)

Tip number four was your Christmas card list. Start that now, get the addresses now. Don’t do admin tasks a couple of weeks before Christmas. And then finally, along with don’t do admin tasks two weeks before Christmas is let’s get your Christmas gift list going. Now, if you are like me, Kathy, if our listeners are like me, it is hard to keep track of these things. Right now in August, this sounds brilliant, but I’m probably listening to this show on the way to somewhere else. So I cannot write these tips down.

So here’s what I think we should do. I think we should gather together all tips after our next episode and we should have a download for folks that they can find inside Clutterfree Academy, which is our free Facebook group open to all of our listeners and a few of their friends so long as they’re nice. And we will just so that everybody knows what to look for. It’s gonna be called 10 decisions to make in August for a less stressed holiday.

and you’ll find that inside our Clutterfree Academy Facebook group. And the link of that is gonna be in the show notes. Anything you wanna add, Cathy?

Kathi (06:08.336)

Yeah, if you’re saying, I’m gonna go be a part of that group, just know you have to answer a couple of questions before we let you in there. Lots of people apply and they skip over the questions, but we wanna keep that the kindest corner of the internet, and so we’re gonna make you answer the questions. So you have to read the rules, but come in there, you’re gonna find 15 ,000 of your new best friends, and you’re gonna all get clutter free together. Tonya, thank you so much for hosting us today.

Tonya Kubo (06:24.375)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:37.675)

I am so happy to have been doing this. Thank you for having me, Kathy.

Kathi (06:41.84)

Friends join us next week for those other five tips because they really are going to make a difference You know we are going to take care of our future selves and the first way we’re going to do that is to get over the holiday hump with a lot of love a lot of fun and some cocoa, so I’m Kathy lip with Tonya Kubo.

Thank you for joining us. You’ve been listening to Clutterfree Academy. Now, go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

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by | Aug 6, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Fear, Freedom, Home, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

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629 How to Incorporate Vintage Finds Without the Clutter

Hey there, friends! Have you ever wondered how to balance your love for vintage items with a desire for a clutter-free home?

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Listeners will discover:

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This thought-provoking episode offers a compassionate look at the complexities of dealing with family legacies, hoarding, and pursuing a balanced, beautifully designed home.

Did you miss part 1 of this insightful conversation? Listen to 628 How to Curate Your Life: The Way to Love Things Without Drowning in Them here.

Click here to subscribe to this podcast and never miss another episode.

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

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Links Mentioned:

www.hilaryprall.com

www.hilaryprall.com/blog

www.instagram.com/hilaryprall

 

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Meet Our Guest 

 

Hilary Prall

Hilary Prall is the creative mind behind Hilary Prall Blog, an online destination for vibrant, eclectic interior design. Hilary’s passion is creating unique, beautiful spaces that work for real-life budgets. Through her website and digital channels, she shares her colorful home design, DIY ideas, and a penchant for repurposing thrifted items with inspo-seekers all over.

Hilary’s design brightens the feeds of almost 40k fans on Instagram and Facebook. She has been featured regularly on Des Moines NBC affiliate WHO-TV, home retailer blogs, and several online magazines. She offers an array of affordable digital products that provide design help with the click of a mouse.

Before starting Hilary Prall Blog in 2015, Hilary spent years at a job that wasn’t her true calling. That experience, though, is what drives her enthusiasm for encouraging others to pursue their dreams and supporting other entrepreneurs.

A life that blends work, creative interests, and family provides ongoing inspiration as Hilary and husband Jason (with support from Cooper the corgi and Sheldon + Howard the cats) turn the transformation of their builder-grade ranch home into endless sources of design ideas. When she’s not tinkering at home, the next best bets are thrifting, road-tripping, trying a locally-owned restaurant, or enjoying the outdoors.

Visit her at www.hilaryprall.com.

 

Tonya Kubo Picture
Transcript

Kathi (00:01.381)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter -Free Academy, where our heart is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And we are back. If you didn’t get to hear last week’s episode with designer Hilary Prall,

and content creator, and she’s just fabulous, you guys. You just need to go check her out. Go take a listen to that, because I think that that was a really rich and interesting conversation. Hilary is the daughter of a hoarder and has had to walk through that journey. And as many of you know, both Tonya and I have walked through that journey as well. And to get a little bit of an idea of what you can and cannot do in that journey.

Hilary Prall (00:32.557)

You

Kathi (01:00.549)

But today I want to tap into the other side of Hilary’s life and that is about the design side and You know Hilary I’m sure you said that you’re still going through some of your mom’s things like you’re still working on that situation in your life and That’s been kind of exhausting and I thought it was such an interesting point when we are surrounded by so much clutter

whether it’s ours or somebody else’s, it really can deplete you artistically, creatively, emotionally. Is that what you’ve been going through the past couple of years?

Hilary Prall (01:44.907)

Yeah, I think I just, I mean, aside from just, you know, the suddenness of losing my mom, but then knowing that I was gonna have to deal with all of this stuff. And it feels very lonely. I mean, people will offer to help you, but they have no idea. And we have had very helpful people in it. The sort of…

part of this is that my mom had gotten remarried and we love him and are very thankful to have him in our lives. We’re his only family. He’s our only family at this point. But it’s his house. And so, you know, whereas most people we would have sorted through everything and then had an auction or an estate sale, we have had to work around him and schlepping it and, you know,

Kathi (02:26.853)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hilary Prall (02:38.794)

my husband likes to be very efficient and not touch things three times or four times. And it was, you know, and we’ve sort of had to deal with him saying, it’s totally fine. And he has been very patient, but then he would get a wild hair and like clear out a whole section of stuff and shove it in a closet. And so it’s like, so now I have to re go through that closet. So just kind of, you know, that part of, and then she lived an hour away. So just a lot of things that made.

Kathi (02:42.853)

Right.

Kathi (03:00.261)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (03:07.977)

made it all just a little bit harder. It’s like, you know, couldn’t something be a little easier? So we have the bulk of it done now. The other thing is we had to go through every box because it was just, she did try to get organized several times. And so there would be stuff mixed in that shouldn’t have been and whatever. So we have the bulk of it done to the point that the rest can easily be.

Kathi (03:13.797)

Right.

Kathi (03:20.933)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (03:33.161)

donated or taken to auction in just one of our vehicles. We had to rent a moving truck for the big auction. And then she just had a lot of jewelry. So I have taken, I think, three loads now to a local jewelry store to have to sell the metal. She had a lot of costume, but also, I mean, it’s worth money, the gold. So I probably have one.

Kathi (03:39.429)

Yeah.

Kathi (03:44.549)

Hmm.

Kathi (03:52.869)

Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (04:00.392)

maybe one more, two more loads to take of that. So just the time that it takes. So it takes all your free time. And so, you know, I would do whatever work I could during the week that I felt like doing for myself, for my own business, keeping our house running. And then, you know, we really tried on the weekends to get down there and do some work. So.

Kathi (04:08.677)

Yeah.

Kathi (04:15.973)

Yeah.

Kathi (04:23.205)

Hilary, let me ask you a question before we dive into the design and decorating side of things. I was just listening to a great person on TikTok whose mother suddenly passed away. And she said she was giving advice for any parents out there about wills and estates and trusts and things like that. It was great, really terrific advice. I would love to hear from you as somebody who is going through the thick of it.

What would your top piece of advice be for somebody like your mom? Like, is there a list she could have left? What could she have done to make this a little bit easier? We know she wasn’t gonna get herself organized, but is there something she could have done? And then what would be your top piece of advice for somebody who’s in your situation, who’s going into a hoarder’s house? Who, what?

Hilary Prall (05:10.631)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:20.677)

I would love those two pieces of advice.

Hilary Prall (05:24.966)

So I think both pieces of advice can work for both parties. So number one, we’ve talked about this a whole bunch. Thankfully, my mom left us some money to work with. There was money in the estate, but no matter what you’re doing to get rid of stuff, it costs money. Dumpsters cost money. You can take stuff to the Goodwill or whatever, but when you’re talking about a hoarder’s house,

Kathi (05:29.029)

Okay.

Kathi (05:37.765)

Okay.

Hilary Prall (05:52.485)

And I know people think about hoarders as being dirty. My mom wasn’t like that. I think she could have gone down that road had she not gotten remarried. It was just such tremendous volumes of stuff. Some of it, you know, there was mold involved and things like that. But you have to somehow get it to wherever it’s going. And you can’t. It’s not just going to be a, you know, a few loads to goodwill. Number one, they don’t want all that stuff in one trip.

Kathi (05:52.581)

Yeah.

Kathi (05:57.893)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kathi (06:20.357)

Right.

Hilary Prall (06:21.509)

but you have to somehow get rid of it. Thankfully we lived close enough that it was reasonable, but if you lived out of state, I don’t know what people would do if you’re not close. I mean, so have some money set aside, I guess. If you are not the parent and you’re the person who you know you’re gonna have to deal with this, I would start maybe talking to figure out.

Kathi (06:30.021)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (06:37.029)

Yes.

Hilary Prall (06:47.492)

Where’s my local auction? Who does the state sales? Now, again, other situations, you might be able to have someone come in and do the auction there or whatever. And a lot of times with hoarders, if it’s bad, the stuff’s not salvageable. So you could call, like you can hire 1 -800 -GOT -JUNK, but maybe just come up with a game plan of some sort of how you are gonna liquidate it because it is a lot and it’s a lot of work and it’s, you know,

Kathi (07:01.125)

Right. Yes.

Kathi (07:14.373)

Mmm.

Hilary Prall (07:17.156)

Again, you don’t want to, I don’t like to ask for help. That’s my personality, but at some point we just needed some bodies to help us get stuff upstairs and not completely break our bodies and burn out. So just how you’re gonna deal with it, the finances, what that looks like. We’ve spent a lot of money just trying to get rid of stuff, which seems crazy.

Kathi (07:21.893)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:30.629)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:42.949)

It does.

Hilary Prall (07:44.611)

The other thing that I think would be helpful, luckily, like I have said, I love old stuff. I have always loved old stuff. A lot of the stuff I have now acquired that was family, I looked at at my grandma’s house when she had it. And so I would just pour through stuff. So I knew what was a lot of family stuff. My sister would have had no idea, because she doesn’t care about that stuff. I wish I would have asked or,

Kathi (07:59.973)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (08:13.282)

enforced a little bit more with my mom, please write down the history of this or who did this belong to. Because at a certain point, not that it matters, you know, like 50 years from now, I’m not going to care if my nieces keep everything that was mine. And I don’t think that our ancestors think that you should. But it is important to you know, if something’s really important or has provenance, you should

Kathi (08:18.085)

Hmm, yeah.

Kathi (08:30.597)

Right.

Kathi (08:34.405)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (08:40.546)

want to know those stories. And I did know some of it, but I wish either my mom had done more or I had asked more about it because she held on to those things so tightly that we didn’t know a lot of the stories behind them. There are things that I remember from my childhood, even from our own house that I wanted to hold on to, but I just wish I knew a little bit more of the history behind some of the stuff.

Kathi (09:02.565)

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, my mom is putting Post -it notes under things. And just to say a little bit about where she got that milk glass or whatever the thing is. And like, she is, you know, for a long time when I would go visit her, she would say, don’t throw away the milk glass. You can sell it, or you can keep it, but don’t throw it away. And I’m like, okay, mom.

Hilary Prall (09:10.241)

Okay, yeah.

Hilary Prall (09:15.905)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (09:27.36)

Yep. Yep.

Kathi (09:28.869)

I’m learning about milk glass. I promise but you know, I just want to hear I want I want everybody who is in our clutter free Listening audience to hear what Hilary has said that Your mom who I’m sure was a lovely but complicated person Left you with a task that has left you feeling alone and

Hilary Prall (09:31.904)

Yes.

Kathi (09:58.341)

I don’t think any of us would wish that upon our children. And so to hear what Hilary is saying, if there are things that you can do right now, if there are things you can get rid of right now, if there are the stories that you can tell about those items so that your child or whomever is, your nieces, your nephews, your grandkids, whomever it is, they don’t.

End up feeling alone. I think that would be list. That would be a great service that you have provided here Hilary Okay, I want to talk about more fun things. Let’s talk about fun Okay So I want you love vintage. I think a lot of our cluttery people do I think one of the things and when I say cluttery people I count myself as as one of those people so i’m not pointing any finger. Well, if i’m pointing fingers i’m pointing them back at me but

Hilary Prall (10:29.211)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (10:56.517)

I think we, a lot of cluttery people have a real deep appreciation for vintage. And that’s why it is hard for us to get rid of things. So how do you incorporate your love for vintage into your designs in a way that promotes a healthy clutter -free living space? Because it can be really easy to do too much or keep things just because they were old. But how do you incorporate it into a way,

that it’s not just lovable, but livable.

Hilary Prall (11:30.014)

I will say we don’t have children, so it makes it a lot easier. I think if you have little kids running around, you’re not gonna have all of this stuff. That’s just how it is. We do have three active pets, so I have to be okay if things get broken or whatever. I have a few things even right now that…

Kathi (11:32.997)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (11:38.725)

Right.

Kathi (11:46.437)

Yes.

Hilary Prall (11:53.79)

I know I need to change out just because of how we live and I’m tired of messing with it. I think that’s part of it is if you if it’s constantly bringing you angst or whatever, then reevaluate it. You know, I really try to keep our bedroom very calm, very clutter free. And sometimes it’s just the addition of one extra thing that can just that’s it. I need to I need to clear the decks. So.

Kathi (12:21.957)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (12:23.101)

I think for me, I don’t ever want people to feel like they have to be overly careful. Last week, we have a cleaning lady that comes every couple of weeks and she does a great job considering how much nonsense I have. And so just very absentmindedly, she was here and I was out talking while she was working and I was just going through and fluffing my stuff because I’m also a little OCD.

Kathi (12:28.741)

Hmm.

Kathi (12:32.773)

Yeah.

Kathi (12:37.797)

Hahaha!

Hilary Prall (12:50.076)

And she said, I’m sorry. She said, I can’t ever remember how your stuff goes back. I said, do not worry about that. That’s on me. That is for me to go through and be fidgety about. So I think just manage your expectations. I mean, do you want people to feel comfortable in your house? Then, you know, they have to be able to live with your stuff. Plenty of people. I have an Instagram friend that has the most incredible home.

Kathi (13:10.917)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (13:18.587)

and I was lucky enough to go and visit it and it is museum worthy. But also I think it’d be really hard to add anybody else to that house. So I think it does have to depend on what your, and he would say that, so I think it’s okay. But you have to be okay with whatever your situation is and what it can accommodate, I guess.

Kathi (13:23.365)

Hmm.

Kathi (13:32.357)

Mm -hmm. Yes.

Kathi (13:42.117)

I love that it’s being realistic about how you live so you can be realistic about how you design, how you bring things in and living with what you love. Guys, we’re gonna take a quick break and then when we come back, I wanna talk to Hilary about what advice she would give to somebody that she was helping with designs who struggles with clutter. We’re gonna take a quick break and then we’ll come back with that.

Hilary Prall (13:47.098)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:12.293)

Okay friends, we are back and Hilary knows our cluttery hearts. She knows our cluttery spaces. And so if you were working with a client, what advice would you give to somebody who tends towards clutter? Do you have any really practical ideas or solutions or maybe some inspiration for them?

Hilary Prall (14:27.962)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (14:33.689)

I think honestly the first thing is clear the decks a little bit. Take everything out if you’re redoing a space. If you’re unsure about something, put it in a tub and if you don’t care about it a month from now, three months from now, it can move on. It can find somewhere else to live. I also think same with clothing. If you’re tired of wearing something but you hold on to it because, I might use that, well, when you’re ready to use it,

maybe just go buy something new. Say I over the last three years have lost over 70 pounds. So I don’t need to hold on to those old clothes because I’m gonna buy something new. Life is very, very short. So I don’t think that you need to hold on to every last detail of everything. Keep the sentimental pieces. Part of…

Kathi (15:04.869)

Yeah, yeah.

Kathi (15:11.173)

Wow.

Mm -hmm. Right.

Hilary Prall (15:29.369)

Part of going through my mom’s stuff was I’ve really sifted through. So I’ve, you’ve touched every single thing. And I have an entire closet downstairs plus some overflow of family things that I’ve brought home. My sister needs to come through and go through them. And then the rest of it, I’m gonna pick the things that I really care about and the rest I’m gonna try to reach out to the historical society of where my grandma’s from and, you know, kind of liquidate some stuff that way. But, cause I…

Kathi (15:35.685)

Mmm.

Kathi (15:54.181)

yeah.

Hilary Prall (15:57.816)

They’re important things, but also I don’t need to keep them. So not everything has to be kept. Not everything in my house should be important to my nieces and nephews down the road. You know, it’s just not everything is sentimental.

Kathi (16:03.109)

Right.

Kathi (16:15.845)

Yes, and so I love that thought that yes, this is important history, but my house is not a museum. And, you know, we can take pictures. You’ve given me two ideas that I’ve never really considered auction houses and your grandmother’s local historical society. You know, is this something? Yeah. Tell me more about that.

Hilary Prall (16:38.839)

Yeah, they’re actually, yeah. So they’re, well, and this is just because I grew up going to this. There are a couple of, I think, there are always historical societies. So, I mean, they’re always looking for things. They want to have curated, you know, whatever. There’s a big event that we would go to every year. And I can specifically remember there is a whole little room or house devoted to scary old dolls, which I don’t want.

Kathi (16:47.173)

Yeah.

Kathi (17:07.173)

Mm -hmm, right.

Hilary Prall (17:07.958)

But I have two of my grandmas and I have her little baby buggy and that would be a great thing to give them. And, you know, my grandpa was a farmer down there and I mean, they, they want that stuff. They want ephemera and you know, all the things that for all intents and purposes, I will never really look at again, but I have all of this stuff. So unless I want to display it or really feel like I’m going to look at it again, I just, I don’t need that heaviness. But.

Kathi (17:19.205)

Yes.

Kathi (17:27.557)

Right.

Hilary Prall (17:37.973)

I didn’t want to make a rash decision while I was going through things and just pitch it. Because I did get rid of a few things that I kind of am like, shoot. But also, I’m not gonna let that, yeah.

Kathi (17:40.293)

Yeah.

Kathi (17:47.909)

Mm hmm. Well, that’s gonna happen with the amount of stuff you had to deal with. You’re gonna get you’re gonna get rid of a few things that, you know, maybe but we can’t let that keep us from getting rid of the things that are going to stop us from living. And, you know, when we bought this house, and you don’t know anything about my story, but we bought a house in the middle of the woods, like, and the people we bought it from,

Hilary Prall (17:54.293)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (18:06.196)

No.

Hilary Prall (18:14.58)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (18:17.893)

they left a lot of their stuff here, including an antique water stand that we love and they loved it, but they had no place for it. Their kids had no place for it. And so the agreement we left with was if I ever decide to get rid of it, I call them. And if they don’t want it, then it’s up to me to get rid of it. And I was fine with that. And another thing that they…

Hilary Prall (18:29.236)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (18:36.148)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (18:45.221)

They had this giant list of all these things that they were leaving with us, but one thing they were not leaving was an IKEA table. And we’re like, well, that’s odd. You left all this other stuff. Why are you taking the IKEA table? Come to find out this IKEA table was from the original IKEA in… Yes, it was the IKEA in Europe. And it was bought, I think, either in the 40s or 50s and shipped to the United States.

Hilary Prall (18:54.099)

Hilary Prall (19:04.339)

IKEA.

Hilary Prall (19:11.795)

Okay.

Kathi (19:14.085)

And so that’s a part of their family history. And we love that story so much, and they still sell that brand of table at IKEA. We bought that, we bought the 2019 version of it. And you can still have the story without having the object. And to be able to carry that on is great. When do you know that your passion,

Hilary Prall (19:22.322)

Okay, yeah. that’s awesome.

Hilary Prall (19:29.778)

Yeah, yeah.

Hilary Prall (19:35.09)

Absolutely.

Kathi (19:42.757)

for board games or paint by numbers has gotten out of control. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, guys, she mentioned these in the last episode. But how do you know when it’s enough?

Hilary Prall (19:55.634)

Well, I have stipulations so for the the paint by numbers I don’t want although I just bought one that doesn’t doesn’t align with this but it’s it’s so different that it’s okay, but I Don’t really like people in them. I don’t like eyes So they have to sort of fit my colors and I want them to be pretty well done You know the board games I don’t

Kathi (20:05.577)

We won’t judge you.

Kathi (20:13.125)

Mmm.

Okay.

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (20:22.417)

I have shelves that I could stack them on, but part of the display is that I’ve hung a lot of them on the wall as display. So I don’t know, is there an end to something? I would say as long as it’s not stressing you out, you’re not putting yourself in financial distress, you can still walk in your house, I suppose it’s okay.

Kathi (20:28.261)

yes.

Kathi (20:41.253)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (20:44.625)

But if you can no longer enjoy your stuff, that is for me genuinely it. I wanna look at it. I wanna look at it. I wanna enjoy it. I love my stuff, but I don’t wanna have to put it in a tote and think about it randomly. So for me, I don’t wanna store stuff. I want it out and about. And as far as like my family stuff, one thing I did wanna say is just because my mom had it or my grandma had it,

Kathi (20:44.805)

Yeah.

Kathi (20:55.461)

Yeah.

Kathi (21:00.677)

Right, right.

Hilary Prall (21:14.096)

I want to collect my own stuff. I have a whole life ahead of me. I very easily from the loss that has happened in my life could easily think, gosh, I don’t have a life left. But I have a lot of years left hopefully and I have a lot of collecting to do. So I want to have room to collect my own things. I don’t want to have to just have my mom’s stuff.

Kathi (21:16.389)

Right. Yes.

Kathi (21:28.997)

Guess.

Kathi (21:38.021)

I love that. And you said you want to enjoy your stuff, but you also want to enjoy your space. And I think that’s the perfect balance for what we’re talking about. To be able to enjoy your stuff and be able to put your, enjoy your space and to have some guidelines. I love your guidelines for your paint by numbers. It can’t have people, it can’t have I, and you said, but that you said there was an exception to that that you just bought.

Hilary Prall (21:44.431)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (21:48.399)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (21:54.639)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (21:59.759)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (22:03.695)

Yeah.

Kathi (22:04.709)

but you must have loved it so much that you were willing to break your own rule. And I think that’s the reason we have rules and guidelines to keep us kind of contained. But then we know when something is outside of that and that’s really special. Hilary, you’ve given us so much to think about. Where would you like people most to seek you out? Is it through your website, through Instagram? Where should people go find you?

Hilary Prall (22:09.295)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (22:14.415)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (22:29.807)

Instagram first, I hang out there a lot. I’m in stories a lot there, that’s what I love. I love to be able to connect with people that way. So I would say definitely Instagram. From there you can find me anywhere, but also if they go to my website, I have a pop -up to join my email list. I email once a week. I really try to share something there that I’m not sharing anywhere else, so it’s definitely bonus material, bonus content. And…

Kathi (22:33.797)

Yeah. Okay.

Kathi (22:42.181)

Okay.

Kathi (22:51.973)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (22:58.766)

Yeah, I just really, as I have walked through this, the people who have reached out to me saying, I had to go through this, I’m going through this, I’m going to have to go through this, you know, and I think just the self -realization that we can all kind of struggle with it. I’ve had a few messages that were kind of rude, you know, saying this is a mental illness, you know, but I understand. I 100 % understand and I watched my mom struggle with it.

Kathi (23:10.757)

Yeah.

Kathi (23:23.589)

Yeah. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (23:27.629)

overtly for 20 years. You know, so I would be the last person to judge anybody about it, but it would be wonderful if people could seek the help that they, that I’m assuming is out there. I know people specialize in it, but also, you know, if you’re going through it with a family member, I know that, you know, it genuinely is like drugs or alcohol. I mean, I would try to explain that to my husband. It was really hard for him to understand it.

Kathi (23:29.893)

Yeah.

Kathi (23:40.133)

Right.

Kathi (23:50.149)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (23:54.349)

And you know, I know people sometimes do have to just walk away from a situation. Luckily, I didn’t have to do that with my mom, but you have to have some boundaries and anyway, so.

Kathi (24:01.445)

Yeah.

100 % yeah, you know, lots of times with hoarders, they want you to hold on to their stuff. They want you to be a part of it. And just because one person suffers from hoarding doesn’t mean there aren’t other sufferers surrounding them. And, you know, can we acknowledge both as victims? I think that that’s a really important thing that you’re saying here. There’s more than one victim.

Hilary Prall (24:22.123)

Yes, absolutely.

Hilary Prall (24:30.123)

Absolutely.

Kathi (24:33.701)

Hilary, I love the compassion you have for your mom while also speaking the truth. Guys, she’s got tears in her eyes and as the fellow daughter of a hoarder, I feel those tears. I’m further removed than she is. She’s in the thick of it right now. So I wanna say an extra thank you for being here and sharing your story with us. Thank you so much. Okay.

Hilary Prall (24:58.475)

Absolutely, yeah. Thanks.

Kathi (25:01.637)

Friends, you’ve been listening to Clutterfree Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

More Posts 

#628 How to Curate Your Life: The Way to Love Things Without Drowning in Them

#628 How to Curate Your Life: The Way to Love Things Without Drowning in Them

by | Jul 30, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Fear, Freedom, Home, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

628 How to Curate Your Life:

The Way to Love Things Without Drowning in Them

Hey there, friends! Have you ever struggled with finding the balance between loving vintage and clutter?

In this enlightening episode of Clutter Free Academy, host Kathi Lipp welcomes designer and content creator Hilary Prall. Kathi and Hilary explore the challenges of breaking free from generational clutter habits and finding a balance between loving vintage items and maintaining an organized home. As the daughter of a hoarder, Hilary offers valuable insights on curating spaces, letting go of sentimental items, and developing strategies to resist hoarding tendencies.

Listeners will discover:

  • How to set clear goals
  • How to understand personal limits when it comes to collecting
  • The importance of displaying and enjoying items rather than storing them away

This episode offers a unique perspective on the intersection of design, organization, and personal growth, making it a must-listen for anyone struggling with clutter or seeking to create a more intentional living space.

Click here to be notified when Part 2 of this interview with Hilary Prall is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

 

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

www.hilaryprall.com

www.hilaryprall.com/blog

www.instagram.com/hilaryprall

 

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

Join our Clutter Free Academy Facebook Group

How do you balance your love for vintage items with maintaining a clutter-free space?

Share in the comments!

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To share your thoughts:

  • Leave a note in the comment section below.
  • Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

Subscribe on iTunes or subscribe to our newsletter now.

Meet Our Guest 

 

Hilary Prall

Hilary Prall is the creative mind behind Hilary Prall Blog, an online destination for vibrant, eclectic interior design. Hilary’s passion is creating unique, beautiful spaces that work for real-life budgets. Through her website and digital channels, she shares her colorful home design, DIY ideas, and a penchant for repurposing thrifted items with inspo-seekers all over.

Hilary’s design brightens the feeds of almost 40k fans on Instagram and Facebook. She has been featured regularly on Des Moines NBC affiliate WHO-TV, home retailer blogs, and several online magazines. She offers an array of affordable digital products that provide design help with the click of a mouse.

Before starting Hilary Prall Blog in 2015, Hilary spent years at a job that wasn’t her true calling. That experience, though, is what drives her enthusiasm for encouraging others to pursue their dreams and supporting other entrepreneurs.

A life that blends work, creative interests, and family provides ongoing inspiration as Hilary and husband Jason (with support from Cooper the corgi and Sheldon + Howard the cats) turn the transformation of their builder-grade ranch home into endless sources of design ideas. When she’s not tinkering at home, the next best bets are thrifting, road-tripping, trying a locally-owned restaurant, or enjoying the outdoors.

Visit her at www.hilaryprall.com.

 

Tonya Kubo Picture
Transcript

Kathi (00:01.669)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our heart is to help you live with less clutter and more life. And today, I think this is gonna be a turning point episode for some of you. If you live with a hoarder,

If you grew up with a hoarder, if you have a hoarder in your extended family, today’s episode is for you. As many of you know, I grew up with a hoarder. Tanya, who is our most frequent co -host on here, also grew up with a hoarder. And I’ve got a new friend, guys. This is Hilary Prall. She is the creative mind behind Hilary Prall Vlog. It’s an online play. By the way, the website is gorgeous.

She had it’s it’s a vibrant like eclectic vibe I don’t even know how else to put it and if you guys are not seeing if you’re if you’re not watching this you’re just hearing this if You could just see Hillary’s background, you’d know what I was talking about, but we’re gonna put all the links in there She has featured regularly on the Des Moines NBC affiliate who TV She she’s all over the place on home retail block. So like I

Guys, she’s a designer. She’s got incredible style, but she has this part of her story that we’re going to dive deep into today. Hillary, welcome to the podcast.

Hilary Prall (01:38.988)

Hello, thank you for having me.

Kathi (01:41.125)

Well, I’m so excited because to Neil who is on my team introduced us and she she’s like you have to have Hillary on your podcast and I said say less and then I started to dig into what you’re all about. So tell us tell us what you’re about your day job. Let’s just start there. What’s your day job?

Hilary Prall (01:58.603)

Okay, yeah. My day job is basically content creation, digital content creation. And I feel like sort of part of where I am with my business ties into what we’ll talk about today with my mom, Justin. Things have sort of come to a little bit of a stall over the last couple of years working through things with my mom’s estate. But looking really forward to getting back on track of…

creating content and building a brand of business. I started out, I worked in retail for 20 years and I loved that, but it was nothing that I intended to do for so long. And I got started working with real estate agents and just local people doing some decorating and staging. Finally left my nine to five and pursued that full time.

Kathi (02:34.341)

you

Kathi (02:38.565)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (02:53.386)

as well as creating content online. And a couple of years ago, I thought, I can’t do both of these things to their fullest capacity. That’s not my personality. Like we talked about to Neil being able to do all the things. I am not able to do all the things. So I sort of pulled back from the decorating end and I could always go back to that. Not that I think that I will, but I wanted to see if I could harness what the internet had to offer for creating content, encouraging people.

Kathi (02:59.621)

Right?

Kathi (03:06.437)

Hehehe.

Kathi (03:19.589)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (03:22.569)

inspiring them. That’s truly what I enjoy doing. I think we all have so many shared experiences that it’s hard to connect sometimes with the right people and find people who are like us, who share our stories. And so that is a big part of what I do in my space. I am very real. I do share all the good things and all the bad things. So.

Kathi (03:36.164)

Yeah.

Kathi (03:46.757)

Yeah, I started following her on Instagram and she’s a good follow you guys. She really is very down to earth and realistic but also inspirational which is kind of a hard line to walk but this is why I really wanted to talk to you was because I think you have the life that many of us who feel like we’re drowning in clutter. Your life online, while it looks real, it also looks beautiful.

Hilary Prall (03:51.049)

Hehehe.

Kathi (04:16.549)

And I think that’s what we want, but so many of us have the story of either we were raised by a hoarder or maybe we have those tendencies ourselves and we just feel like there is no hope for us. And when I heard about your journey with your mom, I wanted to dig a little deeper. So your mom would be considered a hoarder?

Hilary Prall (04:41.256)

Yes, I think for all intents and purposes she would. I mean, it’s not, I don’t know the legal definition of what a hoarder is. So some, she, I would say she always had the tendency. She grew up in a family that she never felt like they had anything nice. You know, her parents were raised during the depression. So, you know, you definitely may do and there’s nothing wrong with that. But along with that came some really,

Kathi (04:46.053)

Right.

Kathi (04:54.437)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:02.629)

Yeah.

Right.

Hilary Prall (05:09.671)

tough things as well. And I know that even people from that generation took that and just ran with it to the nth degree. So I think, I think, you know, even early in my parents’ marriage, they didn’t have the finances probably that she would have wanted. And so she couldn’t buy everything that she wanted. And my dad helped her to keep that in check to some degree. But when he passed away in 2004, it was just like, it,

Kathi (05:30.245)

Right?

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (05:39.622)

I just felt like it just happened instantly, but it definitely had different waves of how it happened. It looked like her going to Target and shopping the clearance end caps and then, you know, whatever was on clearance, it was always, it wasn’t having something nice. It wasn’t like she went and bought one diamond ring. It was, you know, a hundred junky things.

Kathi (05:52.005)

Right.

Kathi (06:04.933)

Right.

Hilary Prall (06:05.829)

it was just to fill that void. She got really into home shopping network. I think just finding that connection with somebody. And then she got into thrifting, which we had grown up going to garage sales, but we didn’t really go to the thrift store. That wasn’t something that was like normal to us, but she really got into that Facebook marketplace, you know, whatever it was, wherever she could get a deal and she would drag stuff home. So,

Kathi (06:10.245)

Hmm.

Kathi (06:17.701)

wow.

Kathi (06:22.341)

Yeah.

Kathi (06:31.429)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (06:34.949)

The first sort of round of it was she ended up selling our childhood home to my sister and my brother -in -law on contract. So she had to clear out to move and then she moved into a townhouse and…

Part of, she filled it, obviously. But also during that time she was doing a lot of hiding. So she had a couple of relationships that she wasn’t totally honest with us about and was just really in hiding. I can count on two hands the number of times I was in that house. And every time I went there it was fuller and fuller and…

Kathi (06:55.493)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:05.637)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (07:12.261)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (07:18.34)

you know, there would be things like my wanted my childhood bedroom set and she couldn’t let go of that. That was hers. And just, I mean, she so I mean, it definitely was. I think that is a part of being a hoarder is everything is yours. You’re just gripping onto it so tightly. So she she quite filled that house and it was just a really big source of contention. From there, she did meet someone and.

Kathi (07:25.765)

Hmm.

Kathi (07:31.813)

Yeah. Right.

Hilary Prall (07:46.883)

was getting remarried in 2013 and we’re very happy and we were very honest with him. This is, you’re getting yourself into something here, but I don’t think you couldn’t, unless you’ve seen it or been involved in it, you can’t wrap your head around it. So we were able to get her moved from that house finally. She kept the house even after she got married for a couple of years, but then it was like, this is silly.

Kathi (07:55.557)

Right.

Kathi (08:00.261)

Right. Yeah.

Kathi (08:13.125)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (08:13.155)

But that meant she filled two storage units. She filled his giant Morton building. She, you know, started filling his basement and then just continued. So it was a big issue within their marriage as well.

Kathi (08:27.877)

So first of all, it is just so heartbreaking because hoarders and it does, I mean, again, I’m not a clinical psychologist, but it does sound like she has the classic symptoms of hoarding. Mom, why are you keeping this? And there’s not really a good explanation, but to take it from her would be devastating.

Hilary Prall (08:41.953)

absolutely.

Hilary Prall (08:53.633)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (08:53.989)

and the buying things that they don’t need and the hiding and the anger at anybody trying to change anything or judge anything. And so it does sound like she has some of the classic hallmarks of hoarding. And there’s not a lot that family can do. There just isn’t. So part of my question is,

Hilary Prall (09:18.177)

No.

Kathi (09:23.877)

Why do you think that you did not go in the same direction? Why do you think or did you did you like part of my story is my dad was a hoarder and I started to hang on to too much stuff. And then I got to a point where it’s like, no, I can’t live like this. I can’t be, you know, for me, it was clutter. It wasn’t hoarding, but I could definitely see the tendencies in my life. So where did you fall on that scale?

Hilary Prall (09:28.992)

Hmm.

Hilary Prall (09:37.248)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (09:51.072)

Sure, I mean I definitely have the tendencies. I mean, you know, and I love vintage, I love old things. So it’s been difficult going through my mom’s stuff because she kept, my grandma came out of, you know, the Victorian era where you did literally keep everything, you know, and then she was in the depression. And so she kept not only like sentimental things but,

Kathi (09:54.565)

Yeah.

Kathi (09:58.245)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (10:09.829)

Right.

Right.

Hilary Prall (10:19.935)

useful things. And so when she passed away, my mom, her siblings came and they took, you know, the few things that they wanted. And then literally, I think she hauled everything else home. So in having to go through all of my mom’s stuff, you know, there’s also a lot of family stuff and it’s hard to, it’s hard to decide because I love old things. It’s not just that it was family stuff, but it’s old stuff. So I feel like it has meaning. Like I don’t want to just see it.

Kathi (10:21.143)

Right.

Kathi (10:45.765)

Right.

Hilary Prall (10:49.151)

go in a dumpster somewhere or whatever. I think the difference comes in that because I’ve had to deal with this, a lot of things have lost sentimentality. Definitely for my sister. She couldn’t care less about most things. I go through seasons. I’ve been taking things to auction myself. So part of how my business started was buying and reselling vintage. So it’s definitely in my

Kathi (10:59.045)

Mmm.

Kathi (11:03.781)

Yeah.

Kathi (11:16.325)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (11:18.974)

in my DNA and I would say anybody who buys and sells vintage, it’s a really hard thing to stop. So it just is and you have to, there’s nothing wrong with it, but when it starts to cause you stress is when, that’s when it bothers my husband. Okay, it’s stressing you out, you’re causing yourself stress.

Kathi (11:20.293)

Right.

Kathi (11:26.373)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kathi (11:37.125)

Yes. Okay. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (11:42.558)

I have one room in our basement left that I’m working through, but I like to think that I don’t cling to things like she did. I’m willing to get rid of them. I try to give things to people who would enjoy them. I can see that it’s just stuff. So…

Kathi (11:50.949)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (12:00.681)

So we’re gonna take a quick break and when we come back I want to know how did you get to that point of knowing I love I really you know, I enjoy this I can appreciate it I may even love it, but I can’t keep everything so I would love to hear some of your thought process behind that and how you got to that point in your journey because as a designer as a decorator I

I bet you could imagine a use for almost anything and I would love to hear how you’re able to curate what you’re deciding to keep and what you’re giving away. So we will take a quick break and come right back.

Hey guys, we are back with Hilary Prall, who is a designer, a decorator, an online content creator, influencer, and daughter of a hoarder. And so we were just discussing, Hilary, how are you able to keep from keeping all the things?

Hilary Prall (13:06.587)

Number one, I try to keep what my goals are in mind. We have a goal of moving from our house eventually and moving to a town that we really love. And so the thought of having to move all of this stuff, we moved from a house that was half the size of our house now when we bought this house in 2018. And at that time I got rid of a lot of stuff. I collected…

Kathi (13:12.901)

Hmm.

Kathi (13:23.397)

Hmm.

Hilary Prall (13:35.355)

vintage Pyrex and I had so much you couldn’t imagine it. But I got rid of a lot because I thought I’m gonna have nowhere to put it and I don’t want to move it. So I do have that goal of eventually you know us downsizing. I don’t want to take care of a big house. It’s just the two of us and I just don’t want that to fill my mind and my space. I have gotten better in creating content. I do

Kathi (13:51.269)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (14:04.346)

some DIYs and things like that. So I would accumulate things at the thrift store that I think, this would be a good project or whatever. I can go to the thrift store any day of the week and find a project to do. So I’ve tried to keep that in mind that I don’t need to keep a stash of, unless it’s something really unique and cool, I don’t need to have a stash of things like that. I’m constantly getting rid of. So I think that’s important. That is, it’s an ever evolving door here, whether I’m giving it to friends or,

Kathi (14:14.853)

Hmm.

Kathi (14:21.573)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Hilary Prall (14:34.298)

giving it to the thrift store, selling it, whatever that looks like. I do think you have to get over the part that you spent money on it. You can nickel and dime yourself to death. If it’s a really something that’s valuable, sell it. I have discovered it’s really easy to take stuff to our local auction house. So I can set up an appointment and just take the load and then they, whatever’s left, they liquidate. I don’t have to worry about it.

Kathi (14:42.245)

Yes, yes.

Hilary Prall (15:03.577)

So for me, that has become the best option for getting rid of a lot of stuff that to me has value. It’s not just garbage.

Kathi (15:10.949)

I think it’s great that you have found your path of least resistance and for you it’s the auction house and I think we all need to figure that out. Is it straight donation? Is it selling it on Facebook or Marketplace? What is it for you? And get really good at that and rinse and repeat, absolutely.

Hilary Prall (15:20.097)

Yeah. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (15:33.98)

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it’s, you know, I understand the guilt is there. So, okay, what does that do for you? You know, I mean, learn from it is all you can do. You know, maybe set a financial goal of something else that you would really enjoy and then, you know, sell your stuff or don’t buy new stuff.

Kathi (15:44.613)

Right, yes.

Hilary Prall (15:56.248)

Unfortunately, I probably would make a lot of environmentalists cry because I’m not doing a lot of recycling or you know, whatever. It just has to go. I think if you get that into your head, get rid of it. Just get rid of it. Don’t, you know, you’re not saving the planet in this one in this one moment. So I don’t, you know, one thing that my mom had was she would save. She had tons of medical.

Kathi (16:03.205)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kathi (16:17.157)

Right.

Hilary Prall (16:24.599)

stuff that would come, whether it was a bill or insurance or whatever, and they always have that blank sheet of paper on the front of the back, and she would save it as scratch paper. She had more scratch paper than any one person could ever use, and so going through her stuff, I was like, gosh, I’m just gonna throw away all this scratch paper. It’s like, yes, just get rid of it, burn it, whatever.

Kathi (16:25.957)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (16:36.933)

Right. Yeah.

Kathi (16:44.045)

Yeah. You know, I think, and I really do believe this is true, the best way for us to make an environmental impact is to choose who we’re buying from and what we’re buying. And instead of on the back end, once we already have the stuff and having to make those decisions. And we recycle, we bring out a big tub of recycling every single.

Hilary Prall (17:00.85)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (17:12.805)

But our community is set up for it and not all communities are. And so do what you can, but really if your biggest concern is the environment, it’s the not purchasing in the first place.

Hilary Prall (17:16.47)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (17:27.765)

Absolutely, and I would I would go a little bit further and say, you know, there’s even a new trend to like

I would say almost glamorize the reusable or the whatever. And so it’s almost like there’s an encouragement to like, okay, I have this bottle, but here’s this other bottle that’s really biodegradable and whatever. So you better throw away this bottle and go buy the other bottle. No, that’s no, you know, so then, but probably what would happen is you’d end up with like five of the bottles or whatever.

Kathi (17:42.501)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (17:52.197)

Right.

Kathi (17:56.549)

Yeah, it makes no sense.

Hilary Prall (18:05.396)

One thing my husband and I have done is just tried to focus on buying the best of whatever we’re buying. Buy at your top dollar. So hopefully it lasts and hopefully you’re just getting what you want. I think a big part of how hoarding can come about is that you feel like you’re never actually getting what you want. It’s the same with food addiction or whatever. You’re just not feeling fulfilled in it. So.

Kathi (18:11.045)

Mm. Right.

Yes.

Kathi (18:26.533)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, yeah. Right. Because that target clearance purchase fills a need in the moment, but it doesn’t fill a long -term need. It fills that high of buying something. And by the way, I totally resonate with that high of buying something. But for me, it could be the high of buying a Costco chicken. Like, there, I…

Hilary Prall (18:40.468)

Mm -hmm. nope.

Kathi (18:58.213)

To me, it’s the same thing. And it’s like, okay, but also I’m learning to say, you know what, there’s also a thrill in using what I have. There’s also a thrill in feeling like I’m being wise and clever and smart with what I actually have. So how do you, what’s the thing that you say to yourself when you are purchasing something or when you’re considering purchasing something?

How what you know from vintage items to maybe you know craft supply whatever that is Do you have like? This is why i’m buying it. Do you have questions you ask yourself? Do you have something? What’s that thought process so that you are not acquiring and by the way? I love what you said about keeping the end goal in mind If the end goal is to move if the end goal is to enjoy your house

Hilary Prall (19:50.994)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (19:57.17)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (19:57.477)

and not feel overstuffed. If your end goal is to save up for a vacation, those end goals do not align with buying the clearance stuff at Target 99 % of the time. So I love that. So I would love to know, how do you keep that end goal in mind? What do you say to yourself when you’re considering a purchase?

Hilary Prall (20:10.641)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (20:19.249)

Well, I need to do better about it. I feel like I go in shifts. So one thing that I try…

Kathi (20:22.021)

We all do.

Hilary Prall (20:30.129)

I’ll phrase it this way. One thing that I do try to do is I am a very out of sight, out of mind person. So that means if my stuff isn’t out on display for me to enjoy, I don’t even care about it. So I think that is a little bit different than hoarders because they can pinpoint exactly where everything is and they’re very still concerned with it.

Kathi (20:47.205)

Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Hilary Prall (20:54.192)

That doesn’t mean I don’t have stuff still in my house that I’m not using or enjoying, but that’s out of laziness or whatever. But I try to keep that in focus. If I’m not using certain things, they can go by the wayside. So as I bring things in, can I take something out that is similar or that I’m not loving anymore? You know, I have a basement that I love very different styles of vintage. So our basement is like,

Kathi (21:14.853)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (21:24.016)

bright and colorful and has vintage board games and things like that. I’ve reached my capacity of vintage board games, I think, unless there’s just something that’s outstanding. So I think knowing, I mean, where’s the end? What’s your end? What’s the limit? Because I know that I want to be able to display these things. It’s not that I want to put them in a room for a later date.

Kathi (21:32.773)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (21:40.389)

Right.

Hilary Prall (21:49.807)

I have an entire wall filled with vintage paint by numbers. I don’t have any more room for paint by numbers. So unless one is just fabulous, there’s no reason for me to bring that home. So curation, I have a lot of stuff, but I think for the most part, I know when things are getting out of hand because stuff starts to feel wonky or off kilter or too crowded.

Kathi (22:01.605)

Mmm. I love that. It’s curation. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (22:17.871)

I think for the most part I still have visual space around everything. A lot of stacks and things like that, but I also know that I really don’t hold tightly to anything. If someone came in and said, Hillary, you need to sell all this stuff, great, that’s totally fine. But I know that telling that to my mom, that wouldn’t have mattered. Yeah.

Kathi (22:17.925)

Mm.

Kathi (22:22.213)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (22:42.725)

No, it would have been a very different thing. I love where you have come from in your journey to this because I think that one of the things that us cluttery people know, I think this is a really good sign of health, that we can be extremists sometimes. Either I’m a hoarder or a minimalist. And I think that there is a happy place. As a cluttery person, I enjoy stuff.

Hilary Prall (23:06.094)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (23:12.709)

I really do, but I also know that too much stuff will really weigh me down. So there’s a sweet spot and it sounds like in your business, in your personal kind of thinking around stuff, you have found that sweet spot of I’m not a hoarder, I’m not a minimalist, I’m Hillary, I have found.

Hilary Prall (23:12.878)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (23:40.589)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (23:41.765)

what works for me and I can feel when I want something new in my house, I can also feel when there’s too much in my house and to let that guide you. I think that that’s really, really amazing. Hillary, this has been such a great conversation. I would love to bring you back and talk a little bit more about as somebody who understands clutter, as somebody who has lived with a hoarder and doesn’t want to be on that end of it,

but also somebody who makes their living by creating spaces that they really, really love and other people love. How do we find that intersection? So if you’d be willing to come back, I would love to have that discussion with you. Okay, guys, I’m gonna put all of Hillary’s links and where to find her. Guys, go follow her on Instagram. She, just looking at her board, you’re…

Hilary Prall (24:25.259)

Absolutely.

Kathi (24:40.741)

You’re gonna be inspired, you’re gonna be encouraged, and you’re gonna know she’s one of us, so it’s okay. That she is not judging you for not having all of it together because we’re all works in progress. You guys have been listening to Clutter -Free Academy, I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter -free life you’ve always wanted to.

More Posts 

#627 Creating a Win-Win Approach to Decluttering Conflicts in Your Home

#627 Creating a Win-Win Approach to Decluttering Conflicts in Your Home

by | Jul 23, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Fear, Freedom, Home, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

627 Creating a Win-Win Approach to Decluttering Conflicts in Your Home

Are you tired of the constant battles over stuff in your home?

Well, buckle up, because in this episode, we’re diving deep into the world of decluttering conflicts. In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, host Kathi Lipp welcomes guest Donna Jones, author of “Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life” and podcast host of “That’s Just What I Needed.” The discussion centers around the intersection of decluttering and conflict resolution within relationships. You’ll be encouraged to approach decluttering conflicts with empathy, clear communication, and a focus on mutual solutions.

Listeners will discover:

  • How possessions often become a source of conflict, especially between generations
  • How to start difficult conversations about possessions and space in a healthy way
  • The importance of finding win-win solutions in conflicts over clutter

Throughout the episode, Kathi and Donna emphasize that while conflict can’t be avoided, it can be handled in healthy ways that lead to more peaceful lives and homes.

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

 

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

www.donnajones.org

Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life by Donna Jones

www.facebook.com/donnajonesspeak

www.instagram.com/donnaajones

Find Donna Jones’s “That’s Just What I Needed Podcast” on Apple, Spotify, or here.

 

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

Join our Clutter Free Academy Facebook Group

How does emotional attachment to possessions contribute to conflicts in your relationships? 

Share in the comments!

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To share your thoughts:

  • Leave a note in the comment section below.
  • Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

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Meet Our Guest 

 

Donna Jones

Donna is a national speaker, author, host of the “That’s Just What I Needed” podcast and self-described Bible explainer who loves her God, her family, a strong cup of coffee and really cute shoes. Her latest book is Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life. Visit her at www.donnajones.org.

 

Tonya Kubo Picture
Transcript

Well, hey, friends, welcome to Clutter -Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life.

And guys, I’ve got a new friend to introduce us to. I was just on her podcast. We had a blast and I knew when I heard the title of her new book, she needed to come be with our clutter free people. This is Donna Jones. She is a national speaker. She’s the podcast host of That’s Just What I Needed. And she is the author of Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life. Donna, welcome to the podcast.

Donna Jones (00:52.494)

thank you so much for having me, Kathi. This is fun.

Kathi (00:56.839)

Well, you know, it’s so interesting because I was just talking with my pastor the other day and we were talking about different stages in life and what I was telling him was for my listeners over 50, probably one of the most frequent questions I have is how do I pass this stuff on down to my kids?

And probably the most frequent question I get from people under the age of 40 is, how do I tell my parents I don’t want their stuff? And…

Donna Jones (01:30.318)

areas.

Kathi (01:31.335)

That is a situation that is ripe for conflict It’s so funny because I just had this conversation with my mom the other day We are going there and we’re sifting through some of her stuff and she said do you want to contact Kimberly? Who’s my daughter or do you want me to to ask her if she wants your wedding album and Let’s just be clear. This is the wedding album from me and her father not my current husband

because I am remarried. I’m like, mom, she doesn’t want it. And she goes, well, how do you know? And I said, because she doesn’t want anything. And she really doesn’t want the album. And by the way, I’ve asked her if she wanted any of the pictures. She’s like, no, I’m good. I would rather remember you guys separately than together. I’m like, fair enough. I agree with that. But there is so much drama over stuff. And.

Donna Jones (02:01.038)

No.

Donna Jones (02:27.502)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Kathi (02:30.343)

There are just, there’s so many scenarios where I believe you should want this stuff. And if you don’t want this stuff, what does that say about our relationship? Or you’re giving away the item that I gave you and what does that say about you and me? Or my kids thinking I should be able to hang on to their stuff for eternity. And there’s so much conflict.

over this stuff that is in our lives? And why do you think that possessions are such a hot topic? Or do you? Maybe you don’t agree with that.

Donna Jones (03:07.406)

no one. Yeah, no, no, no, I actually do. Well, to be honest with you, Kathi, almost anything can become a fair game for conflict. And so possessions fall into that category. And you know, it’s funny knowing I was going to come on your podcast, knowing that you’re clutter fleet, clutter free community here. I thought when we are embroiled in conflict, it clutters our mind.

Kathi (03:16.847)

Right.

Donna Jones (03:33.934)

It clutters our soul. I mean, the last thing we’re feeling is peaceful because we are replaying the conflict over and over and over. You know, we’re thinking about what he said, what she said, what we said, what we wish we said. You know, we’re going around, we’re talking about with our husband, with our girlfriend, with our mother. It’s just so consuming. Our brain is cluttered when we don’t know how to handle conflict well.

Kathi (03:34.311)

Yes. Yes.

Kathi (03:39.289)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (03:48.391)

Yes.

Kathi (03:55.815)

Yes.

Donna Jones (04:01.934)

So it’s just so, it’s so important.

Kathi (04:02.215)

100 % yes. I think of clutter as encumberment and conflict can often feel like encumberment but the commonality between stuff and conflict is both are necessary to a certain extent, aren’t they?

Donna Jones (04:08.192)

Yeah, I think perfect. Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (04:23.438)

Yes, yes. Okay, you’re exactly right because we have to have stuff, right, to live. And conflict is, if I could have written a book that was how to get rid of conflict from now into eternity, that’s time me up, right? But that’s not feasible. So thus, healthy conflict, peaceful life. We need to know how to deal with conflict in a healthy way, just like we need to know how to handle possessions.

Kathi (04:29.991)

Yes, right.

Kathi (04:37.671)

Girl, sign me up. Right.

Kathi (04:46.823)

Yes.

Donna Jones (04:52.782)

in a healthy way. And so we use our possessions, we don’t let our possessions use us. In the same way we use our conflict to work for us, we don’t let our conflict work against us, which is frankly what too many of us do. Because we just don’t know how, how do I handle this conflict? So to your point about the stuff and that people over 50,

Kathi (04:53.159)

Mmm, yes.

Kathi (05:13.959)

Yeah.

Donna Jones (05:19.342)

you know, how do I pass this down and the people under 50, how do I tell my parents I don’t want it? That goes to the way we view things. And Kathi, one of the things that I like to say that I really think is true is the way we view things determines the way we do things.

Kathi (05:28.551)

you

Kathi (05:38.823)

Okay, so unpack that for me.

Donna Jones (05:40.718)

Okay, so let me, I’m going to relate that to possessions first, then I’m going to relate that to conflict. So, because I know your audience is all about the possessions, the clutter. So the way you view a certain item, like let’s just go back to your mother and your wedding album. In her mind, she’s viewing it that way. That was a special moment. That was a milestone. So the way she viewed it is going to determine what she does with that. So how you view things determines how you do things.

Kathi (05:45.991)

Okay.

Kathi (05:51.207)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:57.671)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (06:02.055)

Right.

Kathi (06:09.271)

Yeah. Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (06:10.67)

right? Your daughter views that as like, that’s just a reminder of what I don’t want to remember. So then that determines what she does with it, right? So if we can understand in terms of conflict, that one of the reasons we have conflict is because we’re viewing things a little bit differently. And we tend to assume that people just view things the way we view things.

Kathi (06:16.711)

Right.

Yes. Mmm, yes.

Kathi (06:33.927)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (06:39.982)

that this particular possession is as important to me as it is to you. And that’s not always the case. Or the fact that the house is neat is as important to me as is important to you. Or the fact that there’s a lot of clutter that’s no big deal, it goes on and on and on and on and on, right? So, which is why we have conflict with our kids over a messy room. What we define as we view it is, we tell our teenager, clean up your room.

Kathi (06:40.071)

Right.

Kathi (06:46.279)

Yes.

Kathi (06:53.223)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (06:57.447)

Right. Yes.

Kathi (07:03.912)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (07:10.382)

And we walk in and we’re like, are you kidding me? Like, okay, yeah, they pulled up their duvet and it’s not on the floor anymore, but the trash is still overflowing in there. There’s water bottles sitting around on the counter or whatever. And we’re like, this is not clean to me. So because the way we view things is you determining the way we do things and they’re viewing it differently. So.

Kathi (07:14.247)

Right.

Kathi (07:20.359)

Mm -hmm Right

Kathi (07:34.567)

Right.

Donna Jones (07:39.982)

You gotta talk about the way you view things.

Kathi (07:42.535)

Yeah, so let’s talk about this in the area of people you actually live with. So for me, that’s my husband. And now part -time, we live with my mom because we’re helping her deal with some stuff. And so how do you deal with the fact that there’s an emotional attachment? Or in Clutterfree, we talk about fear, guilt, and shame. Fear.

but what if I need that item someday? Guilt, so -and -so gave it to me, so I need to keep it for the rest of my life, and shame, I spent so much money on it, and if I give it away or throw it away, it just means I’m a wasteful person. And so we have these hangups, but our roommate, whomever that is, a spouse, a child, a parent, an actual roommate that you’re,

Living in the same space with doesn’t have that same emotional attachment to it How do you come to a place where you can discuss that? Maybe there’s some conflict or you know, is there a way to avoid the conflict when you’re discussing it or how do you get to the other side?

Donna Jones (08:45.582)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (09:00.238)

Yeah, that’s such a good question. And first of all, your listeners are ahead of the game because they know the three root causes. So they can assess themselves, okay, why is this important to me? But because they know the three root causes, they also have insight into what’s going on in the brain of the other person. So they can go, you know, and you don’t even have to say this to the other person. I wonder if that’s fear. I wonder if that’s shame. I wonder, you know, you can kind of, which is helps you.

Kathi (09:05.927)

Mmm.

Yes.

Kathi (09:13.191)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (09:19.559)

Yes.

Kathi (09:25.607)

Mm, right.

Donna Jones (09:29.966)

understand and understanding is one of the biggest keys to being able to resolve conflict when you understand another person’s perspective. So your listeners are already, you know, three steps ahead of most people. You do, you do. So I would say as you know, as you are, let’s say, trying to declutter some things, really talk about it.

Kathi (09:33.959)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (09:41.191)

We’ve got some smarties. We really do. Yes.

Donna Jones (09:57.326)

and just talk about, hey, what do you think about this? One of the things that, it’s even on my website, actually, Kathi, because I get this question so often, how do you start a hard conversation in a healthy way? And so sometimes when you’re working through clutter, you’re working through stuff, you’re working through, you almost wanna avoid it because you think, I don’t want this to be a big blow up, right?

Kathi (10:10.695)

Yeah, yeah.

Kathi (10:26.215)

Right.

Donna Jones (10:27.118)

So you need to know, okay, how do I even start this so that this conversation goes well, so the other person doesn’t get defensive, I still feel heard, and it doesn’t become a big conflict. So one of the things that I like to say is so helpful is that you start with a question. So most of us tend to start with our perspective, right?

Kathi (10:37.959)

Mm -hmm. Right.

Kathi (10:56.199)

Right, okay?

Donna Jones (10:56.878)

However, if you start with a question and you let the other person go first, then you find information about the way the person is thinking, feeling, you know, processing that you wouldn’t know otherwise. And it helps you know what to say next. Because now you’ve got this piece of information about this person and their perspective that you didn’t have before. And then number two, when they go first,

Kathi (11:03.783)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (11:24.487)

Right.

Donna Jones (11:26.99)

they feel like you’re automatically on their side and the defenses go down. So it’s a win -win. So you might say some, you know, let’s just say you’re cleaning out the garage with your spouse and you hold up some item that you think, I cannot believe that my husband still has this ridiculous hobby thing that he hasn’t done in 15 years, right? And…

Kathi (11:30.439)

Hmm, okay.

Kathi (11:37.255)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (11:46.959)

Right.

Kathi (11:53.031)

Right. Hey, let’s just use, for example, a guitar, which is just coming off the top of my head that I’ve seen, not that I have any, yes, but if you were going to give somebody a script, what would that script be? Would you ask questions about like, why is this important to you? What are your future plans? Yeah.

Donna Jones (12:02.19)

you have any?

In association with them. What would that script look like?

Donna Jones (12:19.118)

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I would say, okay, here’s what you don’t do. And then here’s what you do do. So you don’t go, you don’t hold it up and go, are you kidding me? We still have this. I thought we got, you know, gave this away five years ago. You never use this. This is definitely going to goodwill, right? So you don’t say stuff like that. Because of course the other person is going to get defensive and honestly, Kathi, even if they didn’t really want it, just by the fact that we said it that way, now they’re going to want it.

Kathi (12:24.167)

Okay.

Kathi (12:28.295)

Right. Yeah.

Yes.

Kathi (12:44.455)

Yeah.

Kathi (12:48.743)

Right, dig their heels in. Yes.

Donna Jones (12:48.878)

So we shot ourselves in the foot, right? So instead you hold up the guitar and you go, I forgot we had this. What do you think about this item? Should we give this away? What do you think about this? And we let the other person say, and let’s just say they say, no, I want to keep that. Then the next question would be, okay, well, tell me why you want to keep that.

Well, you know, the sentimental value, you know, whatever. Okay. Well, where would, where do you think it would, we should keep that so that it doesn’t clutter up our garage. So we keep, you know, asking these questions and the other, you’ll either find a solution about where it goes or the other person may even come to the conclusion like, you know what? I don’t really need that after all. But it’s kind of.

Kathi (13:27.783)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (13:36.135)

Right.

Kathi (13:42.215)

Yeah.

Donna Jones (13:44.046)

become a win -win and you haven’t gotten to fight over your stuff.

Kathi (13:47.079)

Yeah, I also am a big believer in whatever space I’ve allotted to myself that I don’t have to explain this to you. I allot to my partner. And so, you know, whether it’s a gorilla rack or a shelf on a gorilla rack, there are just some things that are hard to get rid of. Like I have a dress in there that I’ve literally never worn and.

Donna Jones (14:00.878)

Okay, yeah.

Donna Jones (14:08.558)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:15.495)

Roger does not care about it by the way, but I feel stupid that I’m keeping it, because I keep on thinking there’s got to be a way, I love this dress, I love it, but it just is a funky dress, and I tried it on, and I tried it on, and I’m like, hey, that looks cute, and then I got home, and I’m like, what was I thinking? And I bought it out of state, and so if Roger’s not gonna give me,

You know push back on this ridiculous dress that I bought maybe I need to leave the guitar alone But I do think that we have to figure out. I like your your thought Where should we keep this so it does so we’re not tripping over it every time we’re going through the garage like there are other ways to Have a win -win without somebody getting rid of it. I want to talk further about this We do need to go take take a commercial break and when we come back

I want to go over those questions one more time to give us a little script. Like to say, if we’re looking at this guitar case and we’re like, are you kidding me? This is still here. Why does this thing haunt me in my dreams? And we want to have, the goal isn’t necessarily to get rid of it. The goal is to live with the mutual decision it sounds like. And.

Donna Jones (15:37.678)

Yeah. Well, if you’re living with someone, yeah, exactly. Because that’s part of it.

Kathi (15:41.447)

Yeah, okay. I wanna come back and come up with those questions so that we can have that script that we can enter and do. So we’re gonna take a quick break, get this podcast paid for, and we’ll be right back.

Okay, Donna, here’s my question. I would love to give our listeners a little script. So, you know, let’s go back to the guitar, because that’s not a big deal. It’s just something that, well, let’s just be clear, I’ve lived with for 18 years, but it’s okay. Yeah, do I sound okay? Maybe not. So the first…

I’m not gonna say, are you kidding? We still have this guitar. This guitar haunts my dreams. We’re not gonna say that. We’re gonna say something more along the lines of, tell me about why this guitar is important to you or has been. Is that something like that?

Donna Jones (20:20.206)

Yeah, well, actually, we’re going to start with, yeah, we’re going to start with, what do you think we should do with this? Okay. That and, and.

Kathi (20:27.079)

Okay, and I’m gonna say, go ahead, tell me more.

Donna Jones (20:31.566)

No, well, I think the person goes, give it away. You’re done. I mean, you’re golden, right? You’re golden. Yeah.

Kathi (20:35.143)

You’re done. And you’re like, this is amazing. But I’m going to come back and say, but I played this in youth group, and that was kind of an important part of my life. And who knows, maybe someday I’ll pick it up again. Like these are not things Roger has necessarily said, but things that I imagine he might say. And I’m like, OK, but we don’t have a lot of room in our house. So like, what’s my next question for him?

Donna Jones (20:54.67)

Okay.

Donna Jones (21:01.166)

Yeah, so start with like, what do you think we should do with this? Then if they want to keep it, okay, tell me why that this is important. You feel like this is important to you. And then if they give you a reason, then say, okay, well, where do you think we should keep it so that it’s not in our way? And then you put it on them and then you need one. Yeah, find that place.

Kathi (21:08.519)

Yeah.

Kathi (21:20.615)

Okay, okay, to find that place. Okay, great. Now, I’m gonna challenge you with something bigger, Donna. We have people in our group, especially our paid group, Clutter -Free for Life, that their husbands have had things like farm equipment that they haven’t used in a decade, or cars, or…

I don’t know, you know, whole rooms dedicated to a hobby. So big stuff. How do you go to the next place in the conversation in big stuff?

Donna Jones (21:51.342)

So big stuff, big stuff. Yeah.

Donna Jones (21:59.566)

Yeah, yes, such a great question. Well, there is a chapter in the book called big things, little things, and everything in between. So part of handling conflict well is discerning. And when I say big things, little things, we’re talking about physical big things or physical little things, right? But there are emotional big things and emotional little things. So, you know, this is broader than just possessions.

So we got to discern, is this a big deal or a big thing or is this just a little thing like the dress in your closet? That’s just a small thing. It’s not a big deal. It doesn’t really take up much space and Rogers not, it’s not causing angst in your marriage, right? Small thing, let it go. But there are big things, emotionally big things or things like cars on the driveway or cars on the front lawn.

Kathi (22:29.543)

Right.

Kathi (22:46.503)

Right. Right.

Kathi (22:55.655)

Mm -hmm. Yeah. It’s a big deal.

Donna Jones (22:56.846)

that that’s a big deal, right? So that’s got to be addressed. That’s got to be addressed. In the book, I actually talk very specifically about a couple who were vastly different in the way they viewed a big thing. And their big thing was finances. He was a spender, she was a saver. And they just, every single time they talked about finances, it was World War Three.

Kathi (23:14.535)

Mm -hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (23:26.503)

Donna Jones (23:26.798)

So it could be, you know, there’s somebody in your listening audience where their husband is kind of a hoarder, they’re trying to get it together and get clutter free, and it is just a constant conflict, right? So here’s what happens oftentimes is when we battle the same things over and over and over again, we tend to make the person the problem. Like if you weren’t such a hoarder, if you weren’t so invested in that darn car, you know, you see what I’m saying? So we make the person the…

Kathi (23:36.423)

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (23:49.031)

Mmm. Yeah.

Yeah, yes.

Donna Jones (23:56.397)

problem. But here’s why that doesn’t work. We can never solve a person. We can only solve a problem. So instead of making a person the problem, keep the problem the problem. So let’s just say you have, you know, you have a whole room that you can’t use because your husband’s taking it up.

Kathi (24:03.527)

Oof. Yes.

Kathi (24:12.967)

Okay.

Donna Jones (24:23.182)

And that’s, you need that room or you want that room or that bothers you for whatever reason. So what you’re gonna do is you’re gonna sit down and you’re gonna come up with, you’re gonna talk about something that could be like a win -win solution. So, and you’re gonna think about the other person’s interests, right? So this is called like,

Kathi (24:26.887)

Right.

Right.

Kathi (24:41.127)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (24:46.631)

Okay.

Donna Jones (24:50.318)

Well, I can’t even remember what it’s called. What else is going on? It’s going out of my brain. My brain is cluttered right now. Yeah, a little side note, Kathi. Yeah, you’re trying to get to a win -win. So you sit down and you write where you’re going with this. So let’s just say it’s both of us feel good about that extra room, right? That both of us feel good about that. The way that extra room is,

Kathi (24:53.095)

That’s okay.

That’s okay.

But you’re trying to get to a win -win, is what you’re saying. Yeah.

Kathi (25:10.439)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (25:15.911)

Mm -hmm. Yes. Yes.

Donna Jones (25:20.27)

being used. Then that’s where you’re going. So you’re both going in the same direction on this problem. Then you start brainstorming and you make a commitment, we’re just going to brainstorm this as a brain dump. So no, this is not the point where you go, that’s not going to work. No, you just like throw it out. But if there’s something that it’s like, that’s just, that’s not going to work for either of us. You can dump that one.

Kathi (25:21.607)

Yes.

Kathi (25:28.775)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (25:33.543)

you

Right.

Kathi (25:48.103)

Yeah.

Donna Jones (25:48.11)

And then you just start kind of, you know, you start kind of winnowing them down, but you’re always keeping in mind, okay, what’s the end goal? So this works for you, this works for me. And, you know, you kind of work toward that. Now that might take several conversations.

Kathi (26:08.647)

Right, I think the problem we often have is we want to get to the solution in 15 minutes when the problem has taken a decade. And that’s painful. So, you know, if there is a, you know, when you’re brainstorming saying, you know, I’d really love for our kids to be able to stay in that room when they come to visit. And I know your hobby is really important to you.

Donna Jones (26:13.678)

Listen. Listen.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Kathi (26:36.519)

Could we divide the space? Could we think through, could we use, you know, you used to collect coins and stamps and now you’re just collecting stamps. Could we do something with the coin? Like, I love the idea of brainstorming together to a solution where a common win is. And that common win is we both love our kids and we’d love for them to be able to stay here. Or, yeah.

Donna Jones (26:52.846)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (26:57.038)

Yes.

Donna Jones (27:02.286)

Okay, you just, that I just want to point out what you said, that was really key. We both love our kids. So you’ve just now put yourself on the same side. You have the same interest. So at some point in all of this, you’re gonna have a common interest in some area. It might just be your kids or you might,

Kathi (27:08.199)

Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (27:15.079)

Mmm, yeah.

Kathi (27:23.047)

Right. Yeah.

Kathi (27:28.295)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (27:31.158)

If you always are thinking about just your interests, I want that room back because I want to use it as a guest bedroom. That’s never going to convince someone because you’re only looking at what’s important to you. You have to remember how you view things determines how you do things. So you have to always be thinking, what’s a win for you? What would be helpful for you? So when you do that, it’s easier to resolve your conflict.

Kathi (27:38.151)

Right, right.

Yeah.

Kathi (27:52.551)

Yeah.

Kathi (27:59.143)

Let me ask you this question because we have some people in some of our groups who are in really hard circumstances. And I’m thinking of one friend in particular who, you know, we talk about.

Donna Jones (28:08.846)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (28:16.167)

in our group saying, it’s really important to me that when we have people over, I’m not embarrassed by the house. That, you know, the house doesn’t have to be perfect, but I want people to feel comfortable coming into my house. And this friend said, but what if my family doesn’t care if I’m comfortable or not? And in my estimation, that’s not a clutter problem.

Donna Jones (28:25.006)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (28:44.647)

That’s a relationship issue. What would you say to somebody who says, my family doesn’t care that I feel blank, blank, blank.

Donna Jones (28:44.846)

Yeah, that’s exactly right.

Donna Jones (28:56.782)

Yes. my goodness. It’s really interesting, Kathi, because in doing the interviews for the book and talking to people about the book, because the book is really a relational book, right? Because conflict is relational always. One of the biggest questions I get, it’s twofold really. One is what are the biggest mistakes that you can make in conflict? And

Kathi (29:08.551)

Yeah, yeah. Right, absolutely.

Kathi (29:22.439)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (29:24.686)

actually the biggest, well, I don’t know if this is the biggest, but one of the top three. I actually have a chapter in the book called the top 10 mistakes that people make in terms of conflict. But the top one of the top three would be being dismissive of another person’s concern, because that communicates disrespect, right? And it’s a very short walk from disrespect to the dissolution of a relationship.

Kathi (29:33.415)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (29:40.647)

Mmm, yeah. Yeah.

Right?

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (29:52.487)

Yeah, absolutely.

Donna Jones (29:52.59)

So that’s why being dismissive is a really big deal. So that your friend is feeling dismissed. That’s a big deal. That needs to be addressed on a deeper. Yeah, it is.

Kathi (30:00.231)

Yeah, it’s a huge deal. So is that something to take to a counselor at that point? Because that doesn’t feel like anything I can address about clutter. But I do feel like that’s not OK. Roger would never tell me, I don’t care how you feel. That would never come up. So.

Donna Jones (30:12.942)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Donna Jones (30:19.598)

Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Kathi (30:27.079)

Is that the next step or are there steps in between somebody saying that and going to a counselor?

Donna Jones (30:32.207)

Yeah, I think there are steps in between because sometimes we assume that, let’s just say your friend has communicated. See, that’s the other thing. Sometimes we assume that we’re communicating what’s important to us, but we’re actually not communicating it clearly. So one of the things that my husband would like to say is expectation without communication always leads to frustration.

Kathi (30:34.535)

Okay.

Kathi (30:58.279)

that is true, yes.

Donna Jones (31:00.334)

Yeah. So we have to make sure, wait, did I communicate this in a clear way? And if I didn’t, that’s maybe why I’m frustrated because the other person’s not clear on my expectation.

Kathi (31:04.743)

Mm -hmm. Right.

Okay. I’m expecting you to mind read and suddenly you’ve lost that power. Darn it. Okay.

Donna Jones (31:14.03)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So that’s the first step. Did I communicate this? My wants, my needs, my expectations, whatever. And then if, let’s just say you did, and the other person’s like, well, I don’t care. Why is that a big deal to you? Now that’s when you need to have a deeper conversation.

about and you need to really address some of these issues, right? Now, this may not be counseling level yet. This is where you make conflict work for you rather than against you. And one of the things that I talk about in the book is a conflict continuum that on either side of an unhealthy way of dealing with conflict is

Kathi (32:00.839)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (32:07.086)

On one side is avoidance, we’re the avoiders, and on the other side are the attackers. And probably all of your listeners know where they are, either more toward avoidance or more toward attacking, and they also probably know what their family members are, right?

Kathi (32:12.775)

Mm -hmm.

You’re right.

Kathi (32:23.431)

We’re two avoiders married to each other, so you know, nothing ever gets done. Yes.

Donna Jones (32:27.502)

basically you know you know right so here’s the thing Kathi neither of those is healthy or biblical so instead of being an avoider or an attacker the sweet spot in the middle is are the addressers and these are the people who have learned to address the issues so that the conflict ends up

Kathi (32:35.175)

Right.

Donna Jones (32:54.222)

being able to be resolved or worked through or at least managed in a healthy way. Okay? So, and a lot of the book is, okay, how do you do that? Because that’s the golden ticket. That’s the golden question, right?

Kathi (32:56.967)

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Kathi (33:05.671)

Right.

Yeah, so yeah, and I will correct myself and say with Roger and myself we are addressers to each other, but we were born both avoiders. So we are growing, we are growing, we’re still avoiders with some other people because my goodness, yeah. Okay, so just a final question here. If somebody, you know, and I definitely, guys, I recommend the book and we’ll put a link in there for,

Donna Jones (33:18.126)

that’s good.

Donna Jones (33:22.702)

Hahaha!

Kathi (33:38.119)

for all of you to check that out. If somebody is saying, you know what, this has been something, I’m tired of avoiding the conversation, or I’m tired of the fight level in my household, because I know that this is a short trigger for me.

I get very angry when I talk about that. What is one major step we can do to address the conflict in a healthy way that we haven’t talked about yet in the podcast? You say, my end goal is for both myself and this person I live with to have a good outcome. I want to address this in a healthy way and I don’t want to go back to my old patterns of attack or avoidance. What’s one thing I can do?

Donna Jones (34:36.014)

Okay, when most people think of how to handle conflict, they think of what action do I need to take? But the most important component of handling conflict well is not an action. It’s an attitude. And that attitude is humility. And here’s why.

Humility allows us to both see our perspective and the other person’s perspective. And humility is not the same thing as humiliation, right? Humility simply makes us a doorway for conversation, not a doormat for exploitation. So they’re really different. So if we’re humble, then that opens the door for further conversation.

Kathi (35:28.647)

No.

Kathi (35:38.279)

Mmm, yes.

Donna Jones (35:47.118)

So we really have to go back to this is you and me, not you versus me. So let me tell you, let me just close with this story that this was such a powerful but yet simple thing that my husband taught me really just by the way he responded to me. We were having a conflict early in our marriage.

Kathi (35:56.007)

Right.

Donna Jones (36:11.694)

And I really wanted him to see my perspective and he really wanted me to see his perspective. And we were going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And you know how that goes. Nobody’s really listening to each other and you’re interrupting each other and the conflict is escalating, escalating, escalating. And then we got to the point where JP just looked at me and he goes, Donna, Donna, I’m on your team. And Cathy, that phrase, I’m on your team, literally.

de -escalated that conflict in a nanosecond. Because what that did is it reminded me that, okay, we’re not adversaries here. And let’s try to work this out. But sometimes we just have to say that out loud. We have to verbally express our humility. Hey, I’m on your team. And we can do this. That takes humility.

Kathi (36:45.127)

Yes.

Kathi (36:53.159)

Right.

Kathi (37:05.275)

Yes. When it comes to decluttering, when it comes to decluttering, I think one of the humility stances we have to take is I, even though I belong to this group, I listen to this podcast, like I’m up in the clutter all the time, I don’t necessarily have the best answer. Like,

Maybe my spouse or my roommate or my child or my parent has a better idea how to handle this thing that we perceive as clutter. Maybe they have a better idea or maybe brainstorming together. We can because I think most of us know, well, that should be thrown away or that should be donated or that should be stored in this way. And to say humility says I want to win for both of us.

So let’s brainstorm together and be on the same team. Because our common enemy is the chaos in our lives. And being on the same team says, we don’t defeat each other, we defeat the chaos. And that’s what we’re going to do here. Donna, this is such a great perspective. Friends, the book is called Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life. And isn’t that?

Donna Jones (38:11.597)

Mmm, yes.

Kathi (38:30.887)

I know we all want to avoid the conflict. We can’t avoid the conflict. So let’s deal with it in a healthy way. We’re going to have notes and links in the podcast notes so that you can go find out more about Donna, more about the book, and more about her podcast. Donna, thanks so much for being on ClutterFree Academy.

Donna Jones (38:49.902)

thank you so much, Kathi. This was just a joy.

Kathi (38:52.807)

This is so much fun to talk about from all the different perspectives for me. I just love it and friends Thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to clutter free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp now go create the clutter free life You’ve always wanted to live

More Posts 

#626 The Hidden Trauma Behind Clutter: How to Start Healing Your Relationship with Possessions

#626 The Hidden Trauma Behind Clutter: How to Start Healing Your Relationship with Possessions

by | Jul 16, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Fear, Freedom, Home, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

626 The Hidden Trauma Behind Clutter: How to Start Healing Your Relationship with Possessions

Have you ever struggled to give things away without feeling guilty, even when the items have only a slight chance of being useful in the future?

That very question came from our Clutter Free Academy listeners. In this CFA Mail Bag episode, Kathi Lipp and co-host Tonya Kubo answer that question and more. They dive deep into the emotional aspects of decluttering, focusing on the guilt that often accompanies getting rid of items.
Kathi and Tonya explore the roots of this guilt, discussing how childhood experiences and ingrained perfectionism can contribute to cluttering behaviors in adulthood. They share personal anecdotes and practical strategies for overcoming these emotional barriers to decluttering.

Listeners will discover:

  • Why it’s important to question why we’re not using certain items
  • How being intentional about what we bring into our homes is crucial
  • When considering environmental impact should happen

Throughout the episode, Kathi and Tonya offer encouragement and practical advice for breaking free from the cycle of clutter and creating a more peaceful, organized living space.

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

 

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

www.Tonyakubo.com

Information from the National Recording Preservation Board on Fibber McGee and Molly

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

Join our Clutter Free Academy Facebook Group

Have you taken the “Low Buy July” Challenge? How is that going?

Share in the comments!

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To share your thoughts:

  • Leave a note in the comment section below.
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Meet Our Guest 

 

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

 

Tonya Kubo Picture
Transcript

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with…

 

the co -host with the most, it is Tonya Kubo. Although, here’s the thing. It’s so funny. Somehow, people got onto a discussion about who their favorite guests were on Clutter free Academy. It is a horse race between Tonya Kubo and Roger Lipp. If I could pick two people for it to be a horse race in, yes.

 

Tonya Kubo (00:40.974)

Tonya Kubo (00:45.454)

It is.

 

Kathi (00:55.489)

If I had to, we could do this entire podcast with just the two of you and be just fine. Because I feel like you bring the heart of a cluttery person who has done some healing to this. And Roger brings the, I live with a cluttery person. And, but I, I, I learned an interesting fact about our friend Roger Lipp. So we were, I learned we were driving away from my mom’s house and

 

Tonya Kubo (00:59.854)

Hahaha

 

Tonya Kubo (01:18.926)

What did you learn?

 

Kathi (01:25.281)

know, when we leave town, it’s kind of hilarious, Tonya, because we’ve got our Yeti cooler and we’ve got a pretty small car. We’ve got, we just bring the Jeep usually back and forth. So we had the Yeti cooler, we had our Sam’s order, we had, you know, I bring food back and forth from my mom’s. And then we had some dog food, like all this stuff. And my mom said, it looks like Fibber McGee is pulling out.

 

Tonya Kubo (01:28.398)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (01:44.142)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (01:54.625)

which I guess was a radio show in the 1940s. Right. Yeah, a little cultural context from 80 years ago. And so Roger says, I’ve been called that all my life. And I’m like, wait, what?

 

Tonya Kubo (01:57.966)

I’ve heard the name but I had no idea what it meant. So thank you for explaining for me. I appreciate this. Thanks.

 

Tonya Kubo (02:13.774)

Okay, now we need to know why.

 

Kathi (02:16.289)

Okay, so, you know, Roger’s mom got remarried in like the the 70s. And his new father, which is kind of funny. His name was Dr. Dobson. Now, not the Dr. Dobson. Yeah, yes, exactly. But this was Dr. Dobson who was a pastor. And he’s very interesting. He actually shook the hand of Einstein because they were both at college at the same time. Right? Right? So interesting.

 

Tonya Kubo (02:28.526)

Okay, not the Dr. Dobson.

 

Kathi (02:46.177)

But I know. Roger didn’t know that. I asked him. I asked him because I knew that they were at, I think it was Princeton at the same time. I had done a little research. Yeah, anywho. Yeah. And let’s just say Roger’s stepdad, much older than Roger’s stepmom. Little bit of a scandal, but you know, kind of anyway. That’s what keeps things interesting. Anyway, so Dr. Dean was his name.

 

Tonya Kubo (02:46.414)

Why isn’t Roger pulling that out at pub trivia?

 

Tonya Kubo (02:58.67)

Huh, okay.

 

Kathi (03:15.425)

Never raised his kids. They were always raised in like a missionary school things like that so Roger was the first kid he had ever really lived with and He thought Roger was this wild child and I’m like, my goodness. Tell me all the good stories He goes, yeah, he’d be up really late at night and I’m like tell me tell me more cuz I have no scandal on Roger He goes yeah working on that photography equipment. I’m like

 

Tonya Kubo (03:21.518)

Mmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (03:44.238)

he was in the dark room late at night alone with negatives.

 

Kathi (03:44.865)

Okay. Develop developing things for the yearbook and the newspaper. Yeah. So anywho, all this to say, Fibber McGee, so apparently Roger has been called cluttery his whole life. I have seen no evidence of this really in his life, but I just I, I, it felt good.

 

to know, you know, maybe we have a common core. This is way off topic. Okay.

 

Tonya Kubo (04:18.958)

off topic because today is my favorite episode. Okay, I do. I was like…

 

Kathi (04:24.641)

You love these episodes. I love them too, but you get a little bit of sick joy, I would just say.

 

Tonya Kubo (04:30.862)

Well, here’s what I love. So we’re doing a mailbag episode, which, and the mailbag episodes are my favorite. And the reason they are my favorite is twofold. Number one, I love, love, love, love, love that we can take the real life current experiences of our Clear Free Academy members and bring them onto the show to help other people who aren’t on Facebook.

 

Kathi (04:35.201)

Yep.

 

Kathi (04:54.945)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (04:58.766)

didn’t know we have a Facebook group or any of that. Like I love that. I also love the message that we send to our Clutterfree Academy members who ask these questions that they’re really not alone. Because if they were the only person on the planet who had this problem, who had this question, we would not be devoting an entire episode to it.

 

Kathi (05:12.289)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (05:20.161)

Right. And I love what you’re saying there, to feel less alone. Because we all sit in our houses, we only get invited over to perfect houses. And so we assume that we’re the only one without a perfect house. And just by our Facebook group statistics alone, which is over 15 ,000 people, I would challenge you to sit, I would challenge your thinking on that, that you’re the only one, because you’re not.

 

Tonya Kubo (05:31.214)

Right.

 

Tonya Kubo (05:41.262)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (05:47.726)

Yeah, exactly. So today’s question, I feel like speaks to the heart of where many people are when they join Clutterfree Academy. So I find that we have a few composite new members. There is the person who is like me, feeling suffocated by their stuff to the point that actually being unhoused sounds liberating.

 

Kathi (06:02.465)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:15.502)

Like the idea of having nothing but a backpack sounds like the ultimate liberation, which, go ahead.

 

Kathi (06:22.977)

My mom, Tonya, has a button that says potential bag lady. Like, yeah, she just, I think especially having two teenagers, she was like, just go and, you know, and by the way, we’re not making fun of unhoused people at all, friends, please, please, please. But I think everybody’s had, I think that’s why we like hotels so much.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:29.71)

Yeah!

 

Tonya Kubo (06:37.262)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:44.27)

No.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:49.966)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (06:51.201)

I think that’s why we like the thought of doing an RV or something like that. I think a lot of Cloré people have those same ideals.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:54.798)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:58.574)

Right. And so to the point, right, because what I’m really getting at is so overwhelmed that you just want to escape. We have that person and they want to escape their living circumstances. And then we have the person who comes who actually has a moral struggle. Like they’re not sure. They know that other people have a problem with the condition of their house or other people have a problem with their cluttery ways, but they’re not actually sure that other people are right. Because

 

Kathi (07:05.921)

bright.

 

Yes.

 

Kathi (07:27.713)

What do you mean by that?

 

Tonya Kubo (07:28.745)

Because in their heart of hearts, they think they’re doing good in the world by keeping hold of things. And so that’s where this question comes from. Because I know, like the outsiders who are not cluttery assume that, you know, our group is full of people who just can’t keep house, which you know how I feel about that. And that’s an episode for another day. But this is the person who says, okay, I hear what you’re saying that

 

Kathi (07:34.913)

Mmm, yes.

 

Yes.

 

Kathi (07:48.481)

Yeah, right.

 

Tonya Kubo (07:57.006)

I, you know, that it makes sense and it’s a good idea to have a house that’s tidy, that’s peace -filled, that my family enjoys. And yet, I genuinely cannot give anything away if it has even a modicum, even like a little itty bitty hair’s breadth chance of being useful at some point in time to someone, even if that someone’s not me.

 

What do I do when I can’t give anything away without feeling guilty? That’s the question. And it’s a doozy, right, Kathi? Because there is the decluttering aspect. There is the internal emotional aspect of the guilt. And I would even argue the shame of releasing stuff.

 

Kathi (08:25.985)

Right.

 

Kathi (08:35.329)

Hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (08:48.686)

And we’ve worked a lot of times with members who the shame and the guilt comes from they spent money on that thing, right? That they’re not using. But this is different. This is I can see that somewhere, somehow somebody might need an extra cord from a slow cooker and therefore I cannot get rid of the cord. So that’s the question that I’m bringing to you, OYZ1. Hit me with your knowledge now.

 

Kathi (08:56.577)

Right.

 

Kathi (09:08.481)

Mm -hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Well, this is going to be a mutual knowledge thing. Okay. So can I tell you, I’m just gonna throw up confessions here. Okay. So, okay, I am a kid from the 80s, right? You know, Brat Pack, all that kind of stuff, like hardcore 80s. Yes, I know. I love them. And

 

Tonya Kubo (09:21.326)

Yeah

 

Tonya Kubo (09:30.734)

Sure, I’m all up for confessions.

 

Kathi (09:44.929)

But I grew up in a very black and white time. Like, excuse me. Like, if you were really hungry, you would eat those green peppers.

 

Tonya Kubo (09:54.094)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (10:05.397)

I was like, and we all could finish your sentence for you. If you were really hungry, you would eat what I put in front of you.

 

Kathi (10:08.481)

Yes. Right, right. And, you know, if you if you, you know, you shouldn’t have to buy clothes, because you should be happy with what you have. It very black and white thinking. And, you know, to be grateful for everything you have, which I agree with, Tonya, I don’t actually know a lot of people. I feel like

 

that express their gratitude for what they have more than I do. And I’m not saying that I don’t think I’m a big bragger on here, but I just know like my intense gratitude for what I have. And that can also be a trap. Like,

 

Tonya Kubo (10:42.734)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (10:52.718)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (10:58.318)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (11:01.249)

If you know, here’s a shirt and it has a bunch of stains on it. Okay, so I’m going to work really hard to get those stains out and I got those stains out, but now it’s a little frayed. But you know what? I’m going to, I’m going to, I’m going to do this, this, this, this. And then finally it gets to the place where that shirt can’t be used anymore. Well, I should be able to use that as a rag, even though it’s an ineffective way of cleaning my house. And I hate cleaning my house.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:08.494)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:23.662)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (11:30.657)

But I should, I should, I should. The person who is struggling to give things away without guilt, who I contend towards that, is we have got a brain full of shoulds. And maybe we grew up in a house where we were being corrected a lot. Like, okay, can I give a silly example without throwing my mom under the bus?

 

Tonya Kubo (11:32.942)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:38.03)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:45.902)

Mmm.

 

Kathi (12:00.769)

So yesterday, I was helping her clean her living room and there was just a plastic water bottle there. And I said, are you using this to water plants? And she goes, no, I think, you know, it just got left there by somebody. And I said, okay. So I go to the sink to dump it out. She goes, but water a plant with it, Kathi. And like, there’s…

 

Tonya Kubo (12:00.814)

Sure.

 

Tonya Kubo (12:18.862)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (12:31.809)

So it’s just funny, it’s a funny example, right? But you may have grown up in a house that was like that about everything. Like, okay, when that shirt’s no longer good, then we’re gonna give it to goodwill, even if it has stains on it, because somebody should be grateful for it, and somebody should wear it. And…

 

Tonya Kubo (12:34.606)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (12:41.806)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (12:57.185)

I have always been under the impression, or not always, but definitely in the last 20 years, if I wouldn’t want to wear it, why should I expect somebody else to want to wear it? If I wouldn’t eat it, why should I expect somebody else to want to eat it? I’ve had to change my thinking on that and say, it’s not a bet. We can be in such a poverty mindset that it’s impossible for us to give things away or to

 

Tonya Kubo (13:21.23)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (13:26.177)

throw things away. And, you know, like, okay, maybe that, you know, it’s that toaster oven, that if somebody spent $30 repairing it, that it could be useful. But most people don’t know how to repair a toaster oven, don’t know where to start with that. And yes, there are things you could do. And if you’re one of those naturally handy people, yay, but most of us aren’t.

 

Tonya Kubo (13:28.846)

Yeah…

 

Tonya Kubo (13:35.79)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (13:56.321)

And we have to figure out where we’re going to put our time, effort, and energy. And all of this is trade -offs. There is no… So many of us, I struggle with this mightily, are closet perfectionists. We don’t look like we’re perfectionists because if you came into our house, you know I’m not a perfectionist, but I am. I’m trapped in the way I should be doing things and I’m not doing things.

 

Tonya Kubo (13:57.038)

right?

 

Tonya Kubo (14:01.55)

Mm -hmm.

 

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (14:23.777)

and I live with that guilt all the time. And Tony, I want to hear your response to this. We’re going to take a quick break. We’re going to go get some bills paid. We’re going to come right back. And I want to hear your response to that perfectionistic mindset and maybe the people we grew up with contributing to that.

 

Tonya Kubo (14:34.062)

Yeah

 

Tonya Kubo (14:38.638)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (14:44.046)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (14:46.561)

Okay friends, we are back. Tonya is going to give us all her wisdom about how perfectionism really can be one of the main reasons why it’s hard to give away clutter, items, et cetera, without guilt. Go Tonya.

 

Tonya Kubo (15:04.59)

Alrighty. So it’s interesting this perfectionist idea, because I definitely agree with it. And I, there’s so much wrapped up in there. And I think your point is, you know, so much of our adult cluttery ways are steeped in some form of childhood trauma. And I’m not saying like capital T front page headline trauma.

 

Kathi (15:30.625)

Goodbye.

 

No.

 

Tonya Kubo (15:33.998)

I am saying I’m really talking about the trauma that just builds up. It’s like the thing that hurts your feelings but maybe didn’t hurt your brother’s feelings. That sort of stuff, right? Like you just, you carried it differently.

 

Kathi (15:45.185)

It’s, you can be, yeah, you can be traumatized just by imperfect parenting. And that, it’s something you still have to work out. It’s okay, you know, because we were all raised by imperfect parents. That’s what happened.

 

Tonya Kubo (15:52.558)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (16:01.71)

Exactly. So with that, I think that we also have to come to some point where we say, who do I really want to be? Right? What like what’s mine to carry? What do I want to carry? And I know for me, that cluttering journey has really been about going, huh, I don’t have to own this, right? Like this wasn’t even my junk to own in the first place.

 

Kathi (16:14.881)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (16:18.849)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (16:31.809)

That’s right.

 

Tonya Kubo (16:32.101)

And so, yes, there’s the perfectionistic part of wanting to do things right that our Clegary folks really, really struggle with. But I think the point you’re actually making is sometimes it’s not our own perfectionism, but it’s perfectionism that was projected onto us.

 

Kathi (16:51.041)

Mm -hmm. If you’re going to do it the right way, if you’re going to do, you know, there’s a moral attachment to being thrifty and reusing banks and a moral attachment to spending less money, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And some of those are good things. You know, I believe in those things, but also they can be guilt traps.

 

Tonya Kubo (17:04.462)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (17:19.521)

They can be deep traps. And also, lots of times, Tonya, you may be done with something, but like we were talking about earlier, you still see the value in it. So you want to give it to me so that I can get the value out of it. I one time had somebody at church who said, Kathi,

 

Tonya Kubo (17:31.278)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (17:39.726)

Right.

 

Kathi (17:47.041)

I can’t use these hundred baskets anymore. And I’m not even joking, a hundred different baskets. 100 baskets. There were more than that, but it was at a minimum of a hundred. But I’ve left them here for you because I know you could do something with them. And in my brain is like, do you just want me to take them to the dump? Like, what do you want me to do? And it was, she was putting,

 

Tonya Kubo (17:50.734)

Mm -hmm. 100 baskets.

 

Tonya Kubo (18:06.414)

Like what?

 

Kathi (18:15.649)

a judgment on me to say, basically, if you’re a good person, you would figure out how to let these not go to waste. In my thinking, it was like, lady, you should not have collected 100 baskets. And yeah, and this was a lovely lady and she has since passed. And I think sometimes, like I’ve had some relatives where I’ve had to say, hey, I can take that from you, but you have to give me

 

full autonomy to deal with it in the way I want. You’re never going to ask me, where is this? Do you display it? And those relatives couldn’t do it. They needed, it’s a control issue, right? And I struggle with control issues as well. And I’ve had to learn that if I’m going to give something away, I have to be okay with whatever happens to it. And that is a hard place for people to be.

 

Tonya Kubo (19:10.574)

Mm -hmm. That’s true.

 

Kathi (19:15.649)

But also I need to make sure that I am controlling my own environment and not letting things seep in that or not refusing to give things away because of this mindset. You know, I am very quick to say, hey, I’m not using this. I’m going to give it away. I now I am. But I used

 

Tonya Kubo (19:32.206)

Mm -hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (19:42.318)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (19:45.185)

I used to have this guilt of like, I have to get the value out of it. I have to get the money out of it. Like I have to hold onto that shirt because I haven’t worn it enough. Well, why haven’t I worn it enough? Because it actually, you know, maybe it was itchy. And if it’s, so I think that’s the next step when you’re like, why am I not using this item? Is it because I’ve

 

Tonya Kubo (19:50.286)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (19:56.206)

Right.

 

Tonya Kubo (20:03.566)

Mmm.

 

Kathi (20:13.153)

outgrown it, either physically or emotionally or mentally, well then it’s okay to give to somebody else or if it’s not usable, it’s okay for it to go into the landfill. Every human gets a certain amount of landfill stuff and I would challenge you to look at your landfill consumption on the

 

acquiring end instead of the getting rid of it. That’s where you can do the most impact. So thinking about something before you purchase it, asking yourself, why am I no longer using this? You know, I had some, some pants that I was like, I’m just not wearing them. I’m just not wearing them. And so I’m like, okay, I’m going to pick them up. Why am I not wearing them? Well, when I picked them up, I realized, Tonya, what I kept doing.

 

Tonya Kubo (20:43.437)

Mm -hmm.

 

Mmm.

 

Kathi (21:10.209)

was I kept pulling them out of the closet, seeing they had this weird stain on them, and putting them back in the closet. This was not a good system for me, right?

 

Tonya Kubo (21:16.654)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:21.582)

Can I just tell you I have lived that exact same system, Kathi? It is okay. I feel you right now.

 

Kathi (21:24.161)

Right? Right? Yes! And so, but these are good fitting pants and I like how they look on me. I just don’t like a giant stain. So what am I doing? I’m dyeing those pants tomorrow.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:32.27)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:40.286)

I was just gonna ask if dying fixes that.

 

Kathi (21:42.849)

It does. It does. You have to go with darker color. So for me, it’s navy blue. For Tonya Kubo, it’s black. But you know, if you go that darker color.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:46.766)

Okay.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:52.238)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (22:04.641)

I’ll just be honest, sometimes we’re trying too hard to save things that don’t need to be saved. Maybe the taco casserole that I made the other day that I was trying a new recipe on and Roger said, he’s very appreciative of my cooking, but he goes, it tastes like there’s a piece of Wonder Bread in the middle of it. And he was not down with that texture. And I tried to save it a couple of times. Yeah, sometimes you just need to give up and it’s okay to give up, try to fix something. But if you can’t,

 

Tonya Kubo (22:08.75)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (22:19.214)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (22:24.878)

Got it.

 

Tonya Kubo (22:29.262)

Yeah.

 

Kathi (22:33.729)

fix it, don’t keep it. I want you to hear me clearly. I’m not screaming at Tonya. I’m screaming at all of my friends who are like, well, at some point there’s magically going to need to be a use for that. You know, I don’t know why I have 300 solo cups, but there’s going to be a day where somebody is going to need those 300 solo cups or, you know, maybe it’s today. Maybe your kid’s school needs them. I don’t know what the

 

Tonya Kubo (22:39.758)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (22:49.87)

and

 

Kathi (23:03.713)

The rules are about red solo cups like at a kids school. Is it too evocative of a college party? Okay.

 

Tonya Kubo (23:09.454)

No, nobody knows, they’re just disposable cups that everybody uses.

 

Kathi (23:12.353)

Okay, good, good, good, good. But if you cannot figure out a use for that item, if you can’t figure out somebody who would gleefully receive that item, and here’s the test, Tonya. If you put it up on a buy nothing group and you get no takers, it’s probably junk.

 

Tonya Kubo (23:31.118)

Yep, that makes sense.

 

Kathi (23:32.641)

It’s a really quick test. I want us to think about, it’s not about I’ve wasted the money. I’ve gotten my money’s worth, if I wore it one time or 100 times. And now it’s time for somebody else. Cluttery people are so generous. So it’s time for somebody else to get the use out of it. If you’ve only worn it one time,

 

Tonya Kubo (23:44.814)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (23:56.75)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (24:02.337)

then it probably still has a lot of life left in it and somebody else will use it. But if you’ve worn it a hundred times, it may be time for it to go into clothing recycling. It’s okay, I promise.

 

Tonya Kubo (24:13.102)

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (24:16.782)

That makes sense. And I think, you know, part of me feels like, well, we say that all the time. And then the other part of me feels like, you know what? I know early in my journey, I couldn’t hear it enough. I needed the constant reminder that it is not my job to single -handedly save the environment by never putting another thing in a landfill. It is not my job to be the example of stewardship.

 

Kathi (24:29.281)

Mm -hmm. Right.

 

Kathi (24:40.737)

Right, right.

 

Tonya Kubo (24:46.83)

for the entire planet by retaining everything I ever bought or ever received. So thank you. Thank you for that because even now so many years later, it’s still a helpful reminder.

 

Kathi (24:53.057)

Yeah.

 

Kathi (25:01.281)

Well, and I really want to challenge us to think, for some reason, us Cluttery people think about the environment after the purchase. And so to think about before we purchase what, you know, you know my favorite motto from World War I, use it up, wear it out, make do, do without.

 

Tonya Kubo (25:14.157)

Yes.

 

Kathi (25:29.313)

That is so much about not bringing new things into our home. And it’s okay. We need to buy things sometimes. I bought a tank top yesterday because right now it is a 110 in Sacramento and I needed a tank top. I’m fine with that. I felt like that was a good purchase, something I’ll be able to use for years to come. But

 

Tonya Kubo (25:35.31)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (25:51.438)

Yeah.

 

Kathi (25:58.657)

I thought about it before I bought it. This has been the biggest change I really do like in my clutter free journey after seriously decluttering my house is being so intentional and thoughtful about what I bring into the house. So if you’re feeling guilty about getting rid of things, I always think about it like this. It’s kind of a reset. So if you have a bunch of clothes in your closet that you’re not using,

 

Tonya Kubo (26:22.222)

Mm.

 

Kathi (26:26.785)

but you go to your closet every day and you’re like, there should be something here, but there’s nothing I want to wear. It is time to get rid of some of those things in your closet. So you actually have an accurate picture of what you have and can say, you know what? I don’t have a cream tank top. And that would actually go with a lot of things I have. Look at that. I don’t have a pair of jeans that I feel amazing in.

 

Everybody needs a pair of jeans that they just feel like is a banger. And so, but you’ll never know that when you have 75 things in there that you never wear. And that’s what I want for you. So get that accurate inventory of what you actually have. This could be for food. This could be for gardening equipment. This could be for your closet. This could be for your linens. Because otherwise what we end up doing, Tonya, is we go to the store and you’re like,

 

Tonya Kubo (26:57.55)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:06.414)

so true.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:21.678)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (27:23.809)

Yeah, I remember that the last time I went to my closet, there was nothing to wear. So I think I just need to buy some new clothes, some new clothes, right? And then what we end up doing is buying things that we don’t need. And then we hold on to things because, well, I spent so much money on it’s this vicious cycle. And we’re going to break the cycle by being intentional about what we bring into our home.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:28.782)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:32.558)

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:37.806)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:48.814)

I love that. I love that.

 

Kathi (27:50.209)

Yeah. Okay. Well, Tonya, I love these mailbag issues because I feel like we get to go deeper. We get to go to the heart of it. We get to go to our own histories and our own coming up and thinking about this. And guys, when we talked about that trauma, I want you to hear me that you…

 

Tonya Kubo (28:03.214)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (28:13.537)

I love what you said, Tonya. It’s the lowercase t. It’s the things that make us act in ways that we wouldn’t want to act and make us use decisions. And guys, here’s the thing. I know that I have done this for my kids. If my kids have kids, they’ll do it for their kids. This is part of the cycle of life. But we also know that we can break those cycles.

 

Tonya Kubo (28:17.486)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (28:24.814)

Right.

 

Tonya Kubo (28:41.966)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (28:42.497)

And when I break a cycle, even as the adult parent of adults, it does trickle down. They can see changes in our lives and I think that’s beautiful. Tonya, thank you so much for being with me today.

 

Tonya Kubo (28:49.102)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (28:56.462)

Thanks for having me, Kathi.

 

Kathi (28:58.337)

And guys, thank you for being with us. If you are struggling in this and you are not part of our Facebook group, can I really encourage you to go over there and check it out? And I’ve heard from a couple of people recently, well, I tried to join and I was not let in. Let me tell you, you probably didn’t answer some questions and that’s okay. But just know that there are questions to ask and answer, there are questions to answer. And if you’re not crazy,

 

Tonya Kubo (29:19.438)

Yes.

 

Tonya Kubo (29:24.718)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (29:28.129)

We will let you in or if you’re all kind of crazy, we’ll let you in. It’s all good friends. Okay Yeah, so join us over at Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy where we talk about these kind of issues all the time and we can support each other because we love to hear what your answers to these questions are as well because we get more wisdom from everybody You’ve been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now go create the Clutter Free life. You were always designed to live

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