Well, hey friends, welcome to clutter free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life And I’m back and you know guys, we’re just gonna keep talking about it. We’re gonna keep talking about clutter. We’re gonna keep talking about all the reasons that we need to crush the clutter in our lives, especially as we’re going into the holidays because can we just, okay, I’m gonna say something controversial. Hey, Tonya, by the way. Hey, Tonya’s here. Can I say holidays are their own form of clutter?

 

Tonya Kubo (00:42.622)

Bye.

 

Tonya Kubo (00:49.406)

they totally are.

 

Kathi (00:51.2)

Yeah, that you know, clutter is not always bad. I right now downstairs, I’ve got some clutter on my table. But the clutter on my table is stuff I want. Or I don’t know if I want it, but I have to investigate like there’s mail down there. One of another podcaster I was on her show, we were talking about soups and we were talking about her favorite soup. And she said, my favorite soup is made with chow chow.

 

Tonya Kubo (00:57.49)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (01:21.676)

And I’m like, the only thing I know that is chow chow is either dog foods or dogs. So, do you know what chow chow is? How do you know what chow chow is?

 

Tonya Kubo (01:28.584)

Mm.

 

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Church fundraiser cookbooks?

 

Kathi (01:39.523)

Okay, that is fascinating. So, chow chow, would you explain it because I’ve actually never tasted it. Go for it. Or do you know? I know it’s made with cabbage, right? It’s like a relish with cabbage.

 

Tonya Kubo (01:56.11)

It’s, I think it’s a relish and people put whatever they want in it. It’s one of those things, it reminds me of, you know, it’s like every family has their own way of doing it, but it’s like canned, it’s home canned. And the people who love it, really, really love it. My mom hated it. My mom was like, ehh.

 

Kathi (02:17.48)

Mm-hmm. Okay.

 

Kathi (02:23.128)

So I was having this conversation with another podcaster and she was telling me about her, believe it’s a beef stew recipe that uses chow chow as a main ingredient. And I said, well, that sounds really interesting. She was kind enough to, she went to an Amish store and shipped me two cans of chow chow, or at least that’s what she’s told me. I have not opened the box yet, but I’m gonna go buy the ingredients to make her recipe and.

 

Tonya Kubo (02:27.016)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (02:31.986)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (02:42.162)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (02:47.517)

Right.

 

Kathi (02:52.738)

do that. So it’s clutter, because it’s not put away. But also there’s a category of clutter, where there’s no way to put it yet, because I have never had a chow chow section of my pantry before. And I just like saying chow chow. Can you tell?

 

Tonya Kubo (02:55.676)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (03:07.456)

Right. I know. But remember, our definition of clutter is do you love it? Do you use it? Would you? Could you buy it again? I add the could you part. But for you, you know, it’s like it just needs to find a home.

 

Kathi (03:13.688)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (03:25.408)

So, so Tonya what this is is Schrodinger’s chow chow because I both want it and don’t know if I want it I both will use it and have never used it And I don’t know that I would buy it again because I’ve never bought it once So it is it is Schrodinger’s chow chow and that’s okay. That’s okay

 

Tonya Kubo (03:51.55)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (03:52.362)

We don’t need to we don’t need to have a category for everything there has to be some space in your house for the things that you haven’t decided on but I do want to talk about what clutter can do to us because you and I have both lived with hoarders and I would say one of the the worst part about clutter hoarding is the extreme version obviously

 

Tonya Kubo (04:01.447)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (04:17.662)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (04:20.792)

But even as a young mom, I really struggled with clutter. And I would say it was isolating for me. Like I didn’t want to have people over. I remember thinking, it’s okay to have kids over, but I don’t want to have their parents over until a kid said something about my clutter. And I’m like, well, I don’t want to have anybody over anymore. And I, did you…

 

Tonya Kubo (04:39.154)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (04:48.61)

Did you also experience that isolation with your clutter?

 

Tonya Kubo (04:53.116)

Yeah, well, I mean, you referenced it in your book, Clutter Free. And I remember the first time I read that and realizing, right, like I couldn’t have anybody over when I was a kid. I mean, every now and then my mom would make an exception. But, you know, it was always having to balance like, OK, if I let a friend come over, were they going to go to school and talk about how my house looked? Right. And then, you know, I made a conscious decision, especially when the girls were little, that I wasn’t going to let the condition of my house.

 

Kathi (04:56.492)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (05:13.342)

Right. Yeah, right.

 

Tonya Kubo (05:23.326)

prevent me from inviting people over. So I would just tell people, I’m not cleaning for you. But I had a similar experience when I was pregnant with Abby. And like I had a potluck, a mops potluck at my house. And this one little girl came up to me and she was like, why is your house so messy? And my friend got offended for me. My friend Justine, who you know, got really offended for me. And she was like,

 

Kathi (05:49.358)

Bye now, Justine.

 

Tonya Kubo (05:51.612)

because she works full time. That’s why. she, I remember the little girl, cause she said, you only have one child and my mom has four. Why is your house so messy? My mom keeps our house clean. Which you know she got because her parents were talking about that at home, right?

 

Kathi (06:06.169)

Kathi (06:10.798)

I want to retroactively punch somebody in that family. Maybe not the child, but somebody.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:15.836)

Ha ha ha ha ha!

 

Tonya Kubo (06:20.994)

Right, and so then of course you have my friend Justine Popsin, well because she works full time and your mom doesn’t. Right, which is of course like total mommy-war stuff.

 

Kathi (06:31.106)

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:33.054)

I just looked at it I said, know what? A clean house is a higher priority for your mom and your dad than it is for me and my husband. That’s all.

 

Kathi (06:44.494)

Okay, you gave the highly evolved answer. I might have said something like, well, your mommy’s also on antidepressants, which really helps with the… No, I wouldn’t have said that, but I’d want to say that because there’s no shame in being on antidepressants at all. Let’s be super clear. But also, I would want that little girl to be… I would want to punish her.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:44.572)

End.

 

Tonya Kubo (07:13.15)

Nah, she didn’t know any better.

 

Kathi (07:13.334)

Okay, you know what? I take back what I said about the antidepressants because people I love the most in the world are antidepressants. But that would have been my very unevolved response 30 years ago when I had kids and mops. Okay, that’s cute that I think I had kids. Yeah, 30 years ago. Okay, yeah. So I’m sorry. I’m just I’m, I’m, I’m D detangling stuff.

 

Tonya Kubo (07:30.686)

No.

 

Tonya Kubo (07:36.296)

I apologize for derailing our conversation about isolation.

 

Kathi (07:40.366)

You know, I think about it though, because well, okay, I think we just proved something there, or at least I did my unevolved response proves something. What will make me act terribly faster than shame?

 

Tonya Kubo (07:58.482)

Mm-hmm. yeah, totally. Well, and we have talked about this several times, right? We see that in Clutterfree Academy. I mean, so often, you know, we don’t get a lot of prickly people in there nowadays, right? Because we have such a strong culture and everybody really does want to be kind, but…

 

Kathi (08:01.923)

It

 

Kathi (08:08.47)

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Kathi (08:14.272)

No. Mm hmm.

 

Kathi (08:21.027)

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (08:21.746)

The times that we do get somebody super prickly, it’s because they are so deeply embedded in shame that they can’t see their way out of it. And I feel like, you know, it’s that hurting people hurt. A lot of times they’ll lash out because they want to take the offensive rather than, cause they assume somebody’s going to lash out at them.

 

Kathi (08:28.941)

Yeah.

 

Kathi (08:34.902)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (08:39.81)

Yeah.

 

Kathi (08:44.844)

Yeah, Tonya, have you heard that? Maybe we’ve talked about it on here, the 17 diapers discussion. Have we talked about that? Yeah. And, you know, I think the people who are so hard on the mom who had 17 diapers for her brand newborn, who was doing it all on her own, are the people who either there are two ends of the spectrum. They get their validation from their house being perfect.

 

Tonya Kubo (08:51.034)

Yes, I think a couple episodes ago.

 

Tonya Kubo (09:04.883)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (09:14.846)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (09:15.554)

Or I could never live like that, but they’ve got some something else that they would never ever tell another human being. And so like, well, I’m not 17 diapers, so you’re worse than I am. Well, yeah, but you know, you do this other thing that you would never want the world to know about. it’s clutter can be so isolating, you know, and I think

 

Tonya Kubo (09:29.896)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (09:43.938)

once we get to a certain point, we feel like we can’t ask for help. Like I dug myself into this. I’m going to dig myself out. And we just don’t have a support system. And we get to this place where there’s so much self-criticism. We start to change the chemistry of our brain to believe, can we actually do something about this or not? So we have well articulated the problem. You have also seen my

 

Tonya Kubo (09:51.036)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (10:13.656)

propensity for rage based on something that was said to Tonya maybe 10 years ago, but here we are. Here we are, friends.

 

Tonya Kubo (10:20.594)

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (10:25.786)

Everybody knows what a loyal friend you are though, Kathi, now.

 

Kathi (10:28.442)

Yeah, I write it done But I want to come back to what are some things that if you’re feeling in that space where you feel like you can’t do anything What are some things that you can actually get done? So we’re gonna take a little break and come right back

 

Okay, friends, we’re talking about the shame and isolation of clutter. And Tonya and I want to come back and talk to you about that. Because we’ve both been there. We know a lot of people who have been there. And we know that there’s a way out because here, I love that story about the man who falls down in the hole. And a you know this story. And I’m sure most of our listeners do but

 

Tonya Kubo (11:06.856)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (11:11.97)

You know, a priest walks by and says, I see you’re down in the hole. And he throws a prayer down to him. And then a politician comes by. He says, I see you’re down in the hole. And he throws a law down to him. And then there’s a police officer who comes by and he throws a law about you’re not supposed to be down in the hole. And then finally, a friend comes by and

 

He jumps in to the hole and the guy in the hole says, why did you do that? Now we’re both stuck in the hole. And the friend who jumped in says, yeah friend, but I know the way out and I can show you. So let’s get out together. like I’ve heard that story for 25 years ever since I first heard it on West Wing and it still gives me chills because I feel like

 

Tonya Kubo (11:56.36)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (12:10.924)

That is so much of what we do in Clutter-Free Academy and Clutter-Free Life is friend, I’ve been in the hole before, but I actually know the way out. Let’s get out together. And maybe you don’t know your way completely out of the hole. And by the way, Tonya, that person from the Mops group would come to my house today and her daughter would say, why is your house so messy?

 

Tonya Kubo (12:12.882)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (12:39.264)

And I would say, you know what, my house is perfect for me. Because apparently her mom had different priorities and that is just fine for her family. But my home is happy, my home is clean. And we get to do a lot of wonderful cooking and loving and entertaining and work in our homes. And I’m really, really grateful. And so if that sounds like how you want your home to be.

 

Tonya Kubo (12:42.333)

Hahaha

 

Tonya Kubo (12:52.488)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (13:08.18)

If that sounds like how the kind of home you would like your kids or your grandkids to be in, I would love to tell you some things that have happened for us. So first of all, accountability. Tonya, how do you feel like accountability works in our groups?

 

Tonya Kubo (13:26.192)

Yeah, well, in ClutterFree Academy, right, the accountability piece is really more on the member. We have some members that want to be, you know, they want support and accountability. And so they post their before and after pictures. They ask specifically like, hey, you know what, can somebody check in on me at the end of the day, make sure I did what I said I would do. Whereas in ClutterFree for life, because it’s a paid membership program,

 

Kathi (13:34.786)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (13:54.608)

and people really are saying, I am going to pay you to boss me around, Tonya Kathi Grace, right? We actually are a little bit more proactive in the accountability. So we’re checking in daily. I am somebody who pays attention if somebody who has been active is quiet and I reach out to them. And usually, I mean, like I’m not like calling them or showing up at their house, okay? I’m not over the top, but I’ll tag them in a post in the group.

 

Kathi (13:59.778)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (14:12.812)

Mmm. Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (14:23.486)

I might drop them an email just to see. Because the thing is, is I know life gets in the way of our best intentions all the time. And what I know is that once you fall out of that routine, sometimes, like for me, all I need to do is skip two days and it’s no longer my routine. It’s no longer a habit. Like that’s how fragile my habits are. And so I know that on day three, it’s very easy to say, well, you know what? I messed up. I’m out for the whole month.

 

Kathi (14:31.63)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

Kathi (14:52.332)

Right. If it’s not perfect, then I’m not going to get the rewards of somebody who’s perfect. So I’m out of here.

 

Tonya Kubo (14:52.999)

Right?

 

Tonya Kubo (14:58.982)

Yeah, or you know what? I have let Tonya and Kathi down. I get apology emails left and right. I am so sorry, Tonya, but this happened and that happened and you know what? I’m like, I get it because I felt that way too. And I’m always like, please pick up wherever you left off, just pick it up. We’re here for you. Is there something I can immediately help you with? And I’ll tag them in that post or that coaching session. Because that’s the other thing is,

 

Kathi (15:17.101)

Yeah.

 

Yes.

 

Tonya Kubo (15:28.062)

Our weekly coaching sessions, as much as they are designed to help people with the next step, they’re a great place for people to come and discuss what’s hard and get peer-to-peer support in addition to support from our team.

 

Kathi (15:39.074)

Yeah.

 

Kathi (15:43.758)

Yes, and I love the accountability. It keeps me on track because it’s so easy for life to crowd out things in another way. But the accountability says, no, Kathi, you’ve said that this is important to you. We’re just reminding ourselves of what’s important and that’s what we need. So there’s power and accountability being able and I think part of the accountability for me is to say I’m not the worst person in the world.

 

Tonya Kubo (15:52.819)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (16:00.538)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (16:14.297)

yeah.

 

Kathi (16:14.316)

that I don’t have the worst house in the world. And another part, and I know you’ll get this Tonya, and I think our listeners will too, cleaning out that drawer in my bathroom that has been bugging me for so long and has made me feel gross. If I shared that with my family, they might say, well, that’s what you’re supposed to do. But if I share it with,

 

Tonya Kubo (16:17.34)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (16:24.04)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (16:33.555)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (16:41.435)

Right.

 

Kathi (16:43.776)

My clutter free group. They’re going to say no we get this that’s important. That’s big And getting that, you know sharing strategies getting that support Is so crucial, but I think the number one thing for me is saying You don’t need to live in shame I have been there or I am there and you know, the only shameful thing is to give up and I don’t even want to shame people who are giving up because

 

But the only thing that should be like, I need to change this desperately right now is giving up. Because you’ve said that this is important to you and you wanna live a different way and we wanna be there to help you. And the longer I do this, Tonya, the more I see our clutter-free group being like any other recovery group, like an AA meeting or an NA meeting or.

 

Tonya Kubo (17:25.502)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (17:38.322)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (17:42.358)

You know a whatever whatever kind of meeting you can think of way that Yeah, you can do it on your own, but why make it a thousand times harder?

 

You know, because be around people who not only support your recovery, but understand the challenges you’re having in that recovery.

 

Tonya Kubo (18:03.386)

Yeah, well, people having ideas that you haven’t thought of. mean, this is something that has come up quite a bit in the paid membership program is a shoe or buying a shoe organizer to organize unmentionables in a way that they hang on the back of a door in a house that doesn’t have a lot of space. Right.

 

Kathi (18:19.47)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (18:27.138)

Yeah, interesting.

 

Tonya Kubo (18:28.796)

I mean, it’s fascinating actually, the different things you can put in a shoe organizer. But some of us are like, well, it says shoe organizer, so we only think of using that for shoes. And then somebody else says, this is what I do. And you go, I can’t even visualize that. And then they say, well, I’ll just post a picture. And then you’re like, wow.

 

Kathi (18:33.667)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (18:39.512)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (18:50.006)

Yeah. Okay. You know why I love that so much, Tonya? my goodness. Do you know why I love that? Because the things online are only the aesthetically pleasing things because you want to be able to go to your drawer and see all the little compartments and you want to get that high from it being overly organized and color coordinated. And you know, there are organizing systems out there that, you know, you, you put things from yellow to purple.

 

Tonya Kubo (19:01.32)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (19:19.772)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (19:20.026)

And that’s the only way you’re and it makes me crazy because our houses are not set up like that I don’t have a walk-in closet My closet is a walkout closet, know, and I do have a shoe organizer in there But can I tell you my shoe organizing system? Do you want to hear how awesome this? Okay So every night when I’m getting into bed and I’m changing into my clothes, I kick my shoes into the bottom

 

Tonya Kubo (19:27.773)

Right.

 

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (19:39.366)

I do, I wanna hear it.

 

Kathi (19:49.39)

the closet in a jumble and then on Saturdays I put them away so You usually have five to six pairs of shoes on the bottom of the closet For about a week and then I put them away so I can find them again But you know what it works for me. Yeah, am I am I ready to get photographed for House Beautiful? I am NOT and if they came here, I’d break their camera, but it

 

Tonya Kubo (19:51.07)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (20:13.852)

Right.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (20:17.792)

My life is so much better than my shoes being all over the house every day tripping over them. It’s, it’s, do I want to be perfect or do I want to be sustainable? I want to be sustainable.

 

Tonya Kubo (20:30.46)

Yeah, no, exactly. mean, and I’m somebody, I only like alternate between two pairs of shoes usually. I tuck them underneath the bed, right? Because I get dressed in the dark because I get up hours before Brian does. So I just, there’s one little spot underneath the bed. That’s where my shoes live. I put them on, I’m good to go. And I think that’s the other thing that, so there is a time for aesthetics. There really is.

 

Kathi (20:36.824)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (20:40.366)

Perfect. Yeah.

 

Kathi (20:45.836)

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:00.892)

But most of us now is not that time, right? Now is the time to minimize, like get as much out of there and to make our houses functional. So, you know, like for us right now, like socks are such a battle when you have kids and it was fine when their feet were not as big as mine. Now that our feet are all the same size.

 

Kathi (21:12.782)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (21:18.638)

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:27.774)

It’s a problem. So we have two of those fabric cubes and all the socks go in there and we don’t match them. We don’t do anything. It is absolutely not a great long-term solution, but I don’t have socks all over the house and I’m not worried about whose socks are in whose drawer.

 

Kathi (21:44.814)

Okay, can I tell you my ultimate sock solution that I did when I had teenagers? I don’t know if this will work for you, but my girls would keep stealing my socks. I had black no-show socks. So what I did was I ordered a dozen Barney socks and.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:48.59)

I’ll take it. I will take it.

 

Kathi (22:11.726)

they were never touched by my teenage girls.

 

Tonya Kubo (22:15.423)

that’s funny.

 

Kathi (22:16.972)

Because I was so sick of, I literally did not have socks. And I’m like, I, go ahead.

 

Tonya Kubo (22:21.478)

Right. Well, I was going to say, yeah, I don’t have socks, but it’s not the girl’s fault. Remember, Brian does the laundry and Brian has an organization system that is called Mine Not Mine.

 

Kathi (22:29.326)

Right?

 

Tonya Kubo (22:36.922)

And if it is not his, then it goes all in the same pile. Right? And so the girls and I, was like their underwear in my drawer, my underwear in their drawer. And I would always like hold up their underwear. like, what part of you thinks this is my size? And that’s when he explained, he’s like, Tonya, it’s a simple system. It’s mine and not mine. And if it’s not mine, I just kind of assume maybe it’s yours.

 

Kathi (22:43.01)

Yes.

 

Kathi (22:47.726)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (22:53.366)

Right, right, right, right.

 

Kathi (23:05.302)

Okay, thank you, Brian, for doing laundry. Grateful.

 

Tonya Kubo (23:06.59)

Exactly. I am grateful for the laundry and now we have this weird commingled sock thing, but it works for now. once, Lily and I have been talking about this, it’s like, okay, once our frustration level gets to the point that we are ready to solve it on our own, we will do that. Until then we do not complain and we tolerate the solution that dad has come up

 

Kathi (23:25.708)

Right. Right.

 

Yes, Barney the Dinosaur, just keep that in your back pocket.

 

Tonya Kubo (23:34.928)

I might actually, that’s tempting.

 

Kathi (23:39.138)

Yeah, just make your stuff so undesirable that nobody else in the house will touch it. Yeah. Okay. So Tonya, this is literally the last day of our sale.

 

Tonya Kubo (23:44.872)

Right.

 

Tonya Kubo (23:51.794)

Right, well, we haven’t even talked about the clutter free for life sale!

 

Kathi (23:54.646)

So here’s why I’m gonna ask you if people are feeling isolated, what is our last ditch effort to say one, you’re the person who might benefit from this and two, what it’s gonna change for you.

 

Tonya Kubo (24:09.05)

I mean, it’s clutter free for life, right? So I guess here’s the thing is if you were looking for your house to be Pinterest perfect in 30 days, this is not the program for you. This is for the person who says it’s going to take time. It’s going to take effort. It’s a day to day thing that I’m going to have to work on. I’m going to slip. I’m going to fall. I might not even like look at the program materials for three months time. I may not. But when I’m ready,

 

Kathi (24:12.045)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (24:39.354)

I will have this whole community of people who are waiting for me and are happy to help me pick back up. Then Clutter Free for Life is 100 % for you. You can do our annual pass right now. It’s over 60 % off of regular price. Month to month is totally an option as well. But right now the annual pass is just 118 for a whole year. That’s what, like nine bucks? You do the math way better than I do, Kathi. It’s like nine bucks a month.

 

Kathi (25:04.098)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (25:07.958)

And it’s worth trying out and giving it a go. And if it’s not for you, then you’ll know in the first 30 days, I think. Because we’re pretty laid back and sometimes we’re just too laid back for people. I get that. But I really think you just… They do. People do come in really expecting me to be mean. And I’m just like, I don’t have it in me. I’m sorry.

 

Kathi (25:16.482)

Yeah, for sure.

 

Kathi (25:21.696)

Yeah, no, they want us to be meaner to them.

 

Kathi (25:30.732)

No, that’s not what we do here. We’re nice and Right

 

Tonya Kubo (25:34.106)

I have a lot of compassion and I think my compassion, I actually had somebody last January who was like, no, like I don’t deserve compassion. And I was like, yeah, you do. And they were telling me, they’re like, you don’t understand. And they were telling me like how lazy they were and all these things. And I said, wow, you have really high expectations of yourself. And they were like, well, yeah. And I said, and how’s that working? And they just kind of stopped. And I said, you know, like,

 

Kathi (25:46.04)

We all deserve compassion.

 

Tonya Kubo (26:04.07)

I can’t say the word right now. Recrimination, self-recrimination has, like it sounds like you have a history of that and it hasn’t been effective. So what if we tried compassion?

 

Kathi (26:06.636)

Yeah, yeah.

 

Kathi (26:14.092)

Yeah, yeah, because if you’re going to keep doing the same thing you’ve always been doing and it hasn’t worked And here’s the thing I come from a generation I come from generations of people who wanted to shame themselves into better behavior And it just it doesn’t work. Okay friends today’s the last day, but here’s the beautiful thing if it doesn’t work for you 30-day guarantee what if you got to lose and I think

 

Tonya Kubo (26:28.882)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (26:43.488)

If you stick with it, you’re gonna see results. You may not feel like you see results in the first week, but within the first two weeks, you’re gonna start to see some noticeable results in your life. And we wanna be there to cheer you on. So I’m putting the link down there. It’s normally 299. You can join any time of the year for 299. But if you wanna get the super, because we like to onboard everybody at once. It saves our team a lot of time and a lot of energy.

 

Tonya Kubo (26:55.166)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:10.79)

Yep.

 

Kathi (27:13.006)

118 and That’s It’s less than $10 a month To know that you’re on the right track Tonya. Thanks for hanging out with me Okay, and friends, thank you for hanging out you’ve been listening to clutter free Academy. I’m Kathi lip now Go start the clutter free life. You’ve always wanted to live

 

Tonya Kubo (27:21.63)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:26.44)

Thanks for having me.