Kathi (00:01.794)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my co-clutter warrior, it’s Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (00:15.794)

Hey, Kathi.

Kathi (00:17.95)

Okay, so this may sound like the basic of basic podcasts, but I think when people get overwhelmed by clutter, we do have to go back to the basics because you know that one of my pet peeves is somebody says, I’m gonna do your clutter program. I’m like, awesome, but I’m also doing Marie Kondo’s and I’m also doing the fly lady, and I’m also doing.

I’m like, please leave me out of this. Because what cluttery people tend to do is we tend to take the easiest part or the most attractive part from each system. Then we don’t understand why. Because let’s be honest, every system has their hard part.

Tonya Kubo (01:00.263)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (01:11.859)

Yes, that is 100 % true.

Kathi (01:15.584)

And so I wanna talk about why you may be completely overwhelmed right now when it comes to clutter. We’re recording this when Halloween is on its way out, Thanksgiving and Christmas are on their way in. I was just at, where was I? I was at Walmart and the amount of real estate that is dedicated to

Tonya Kubo (01:24.083)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (01:45.23)

I shouldn’t be surprised. I shouldn’t be surprised if we start to see Christmas in July.

Tonya Kubo (01:48.177)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (01:53.317)

Yeah, no, I have something to say about that because so we walked into Lowe’s like a week ago and Abby started cackling, and I was like, what? And she’s like, look at that, mom. And they had like an aisle of Halloween decorations. And of course, it’s Lowe’s, so it’s a lot of yard stuff. And it’s facing this whole section of Christmas. And it looks like Halloween is facing off with Christmas because it’s like,

Kathi (02:12.771)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (02:22.291)

a blow-up Santa, like an inflatable Santa, opposite an animatronic Grim Reaper. But it didn’t look like, my gosh, it looked like from like Lord of the Rings when they’re like facing off before the big war. And I had to take a picture of it because it was funny. I’ll have to post that to social. But yeah, Abby was just like, this is so funny. It’s like the war for Christmas.

Kathi (02:28.909)

my goodness.

Kathi (02:41.549)

Yeah.

Kathi (02:47.66)

Yeah, and fall is my favorite time of year. And I’m like, let me just enjoy fall. But the Christmas stuff is out. Well, I can’t even imagine what the temperature is where you’re at right now. But it’s still 100 degrees here. Yeah. Yeah, it’s just gross. Okay. But if we start to talk about Christmas and the holidays, there’s some anxiety over that. And you’re like, my house isn’t ready. And you want to do a deep dive.

Tonya Kubo (03:00.711)

yeah, same. Yeah, same.

Tonya Kubo (03:11.091)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (03:16.206)

on all the clutter in your house, but there just doesn’t feel like there’s time. So we’re gonna try a bunch of patch-it solutions. Like, I’m just gonna stick this pile of papers here for now. But I’ll totally remember where it is when I need to dig out that tax bill or whatever it is. And then, you know, we…

Tonya Kubo (03:28.839)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (03:34.064)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (03:38.9)

unearth all these memories, having to apologize for the state of our home, telling people don’t open that closet. For me, a long time, I felt like I had to take people out instead of having them over because my house wasn’t in a state where I could entertain people. But then when I take them out, because it was my idea, I felt like I had to pay. You know, there’s a real financial cost.

Tonya Kubo (03:54.087)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (04:04.327)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (04:08.056)

To clutter. Rebuying things. I don’t know if that’s ever been something you’ve had to do, Tonya, but I can’t find the cupcake liners that I bought two weeks ago, so I need to go buy more Valentine cupcake liners or Christmas.

Tonya Kubo (04:09.501)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (04:25.971)

That comes up, actually, that is a very acute common pain point in our Facebook group and Clutterfree Academy. Very common, both from a, I need this thing. I know I bought it. It’s somewhere around here. I can’t find it. I’m trying not to go out and buy it, right? To, holy cow, I thought I bought these things and now I just found where I stashed them.

Kathi (04:33.166)

Hmm

Tonya Kubo (04:54.713)

after I just bought them all over again.

Kathi (04:56.128)

Of course. Yes. I’m the person who will leave little notes for myself on my calendar. Like I leave breadcrumbs to say, this is where this thing is. And I leave, I leave also little hints in September. Do not buy Christmas wrap. You have plenty, Kathi. You know, do not buy tape or ribbons or

Tonya Kubo (05:02.3)

Yeah

Tonya Kubo (05:18.555)

Yes.

Kathi (05:23.35)

The little car like you don’t need any of that stuff. But also I know that one of the things that is the most clutter-producing are events and change. Tonya, you know, I live a pretty clutter-free life. We are not we are not by any means picture-perfect all the time. But this week I’m like, Roger, what has happened to our lives?

Tonya Kubo (05:33.511)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (05:41.213)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (05:50.808)

What has happened to our lives? Why is there so much stuff? Like our house was looking pretty good a week ago and kaboom. And he said, well, remember last week we had nine people living in our house. And I’m like, yeah, but I recovered from that. And he goes, yeah, but you launched a book on Tuesday. Like any time there’s this big event, even though it doesn’t feel like it should be so cluttery.

Tonya Kubo (05:57.203)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:03.687)

Right, you had to retreat.

Tonya Kubo (06:09.447)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (06:17.352)

things get left out, things get missed. Anytime that our patterns are interrupted, it’s harder and that is what the holidays are. Yes, so we talk about, know, how anything, have you had any of these things in your household in the past three months? Disaster, we’re recording this right about the time.

Tonya Kubo (06:26.213)

Mm-hmm. That is very true.

Kathi (06:41.588)

as we’ve just had major hurricanes go through a large part of the country. You we’ve had two. One specifically working its way through Florida right now. Sickness, the Kubo household, the plague befell you.

Tonya Kubo (06:47.187)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:55.013)

my gosh, it has been a year and then some. And you know, it’s not that far in the school year, but yes, plague.

Kathi (07:01.51)

Yes. A death in the family or close friends, you know, that is a major upheaval. Moving. I never want to move again. I want to be buried out in the North 40. Like I never want to move again. And then also we have a lot of our friends who are in Clutter-free for Life and Clutterfree Academy who deal with challenges with their mental health, whether it’s depression, ADHD,

Tonya Kubo (07:27.261)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (07:30.19)

We have a lot of people who are working through some of those challenges.

Tonya Kubo (07:33.585)

Yeah, well I would say actually, to be more accurate, it’s health issues. We see that all the time in Clutterfree Academy, the free group, right? When you join the group, you’re asked to answer several questions. And one is, what gets in the way of you and your decluttering goals? And one of the choices is health issues. And all the, like that gets picked probably five out of 10 times every single week. It’s health issues.

Kathi (07:38.988)

Yeah. Yes.

Kathi (07:49.646)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (08:01.489)

get in the way of my best efforts. And then we see a larger percentage of those individuals in Clutter Free for Life, a paid membership program, because quite honestly, they do not have the physical, mental or emotional bandwidth to decide what to do next. And so they join our paid program. So we do the decision-making for them. But yeah, I would say that those health issues, mental and physical, is a major barrier for our people. Major barrier.

Kathi (08:22.04)

Great.

Kathi (08:30.794)

So I want to give some really practical tools, whether it’s health issues, chaos in your family, sickness, whatever that is. What are some really practical things that we can do as we’re fighting clutter in our lives? And I think you just hit on such a huge one, that pre-deciding. Tell me, Tonya, how you’ve seen that live out in our groups that

Pre-deciding has helped them with this clutter battle.

Tonya Kubo (09:04.783)

Yeah, well, how many examples can I give you? Because I have a lot, Kathi, and this will help me prioritize in my brain. Say three, three. OK, I can do three. So the first one. So if you’ve been listening to the podcast for any length of time, you know that our clutter. Not it’s not 100 percent accurate, right, because context matters in many cases, but in general, the reasons behind our clutter fall into two areas.

Kathi (09:07.884)

Hahaha!

Kathi (09:12.206)

let’s say three. Three is good.

Tonya Kubo (09:34.637)

One is the acquisition of stuff, the amount of stuff that comes into our home. The other is in minimizing the stuff. You’re the one who taught me, Kathi, you must minimize before you organize, right? So that is getting the stuff out of the home. And I refer to that as managing the ebb and flow of stuff in our home or managing the ebb and flow of our possessions. And some people quite honestly struggle on both ends of that. I don’t know what you call that.

both ends of the relationship with clutter. And so in pre-deciding, one of the most powerful decisions I’ve seen made, and we’ve got one member and she has given me permission to talk about her publicly. Her name is Jackie. You know, she struggles with both sides. Yeah, both ends of the spectrum are hard for her, but she made a decision the first of this year that involved the acquisition of stuff. She was gonna really focus.

Kathi (10:05.261)

right.

Kathi (10:18.05)

We love Jackie. We love Jackie.

Tonya Kubo (10:30.931)

on minimizing how much came into her home. And one of those decisions meant that if she got a message from somebody, because she’s part of like by nothing groups and sort of these restoration groups, if somebody gave sent her a message of like, my gosh, there’s this incredible whatever over here on the side of the road, she was gonna say, you know what, I can’t think of anything to do with that. I’m gonna have to pass.

She pre-decided that, you know, she knows what days of the week people tend to put stuff out on the curb. She made, she pre-decided that she was not going to drive down certain streets on those days during those times of days because she knew early in the year, she knew she wasn’t going to be able to pass by certain things. She just knew it, right? Like if I pass by that, if I see a thing like that, it’s going in my truck.

Kathi (11:02.67)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (11:22.043)

and it’s going in my garage because in my mind, if I put it in my truck, I save it from a landfill. I don’t have the self-control to say no, but what I do have the self-control to do is not drive in that part of town on that day of the

Kathi (11:36.293)

my goodness, I had not heard this story. That is amazing. I’m so proud of her.

Tonya Kubo (11:41.095)

So, I am proud, Kathi, I could weep, and you know I’m not that emotional of a person, but I could weep daily over the growth that I see in our members because the thing is, is I remember it all. I remember them when they first joined. They don’t remember how far they’ve come. So the first thing I would say is, previous society, think of what Jackie did. Can you make a decision involving your routine?

Kathi (11:57.698)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (12:08.977)

that eliminates five other decisions. Because that’s a big one. The other thing I would say is, know, meal planning. It’s so funny. We are not a food group. We cannot sell you meal plans. don’t, well, we can sell you Sabbath soup, which has meal plans. But if you join Color Free Academy, I don’t have meal plans in there to sell you. I’m sorry. But, you know.

Kathi (12:13.614)

Yeah.

Kathi (12:25.656)

Yes, please.

Kathi (12:31.33)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (12:34.759)

The idea of a meal plan, of pre-deciding this is what we’re eating every day, prevents over buying a food, which prevents food waste. It does so much to save time at the end of the day when you’re tired and your energy is often at the lowest. And so by pre-deciding what you’re gonna eat, we’ve seen this in our house particularly. If I know what we’re having for dinner, I know exactly when to get started in the kitchen cooking and…

Because I’ve made so many mental decisions, I still have physical energy to clean up the kitchen after we eat.

Kathi (13:10.35)

Tonya, I really do think that meals need to become a bigger part of what we do in Clutterfree for Life. It’s just, it’s, you know, every day I spend about 15 minutes doing something towards my meal plan. You know, on Mondays I make my menu, on Tuesdays I make my shopping list and I order my groceries, on Wednesdays pick them up, Thursdays prep.

Tonya Kubo (13:20.101)

yes, definitely.

Tonya Kubo (13:28.761)

Mm hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (13:39.63)

You know, doing all those vegetables, you know, everything that involves a quiz and art or I pre-ground some meat or something like that. then Friday and Saturday I cook. It makes such a so I spend about 15 minutes doing that and I spend about 15 minutes decluttering every day. And then I, you know, specific rooms, you know, Monday I’m doing my kitchen Tuesday, I’m doing my living room. And then I spent about 15 minutes doing some kind of cleaning.

Tonya Kubo (13:40.723)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (13:57.767)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (14:08.822)

That is a little above and beyond and just by making those three decisions and those decisions are Predecisions like this is what I’m doing and this is what I’m going to do It’s changed the rhythm of my home. It’s made such a difference Tonya, I want to come back And I want to talk to the women You know, we have some guys who are here. We’re welcome, but you know what? I’m just going to be honest

Tonya Kubo (14:11.059)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (14:24.409)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (14:39.086)

we are talking to women here because we have different kinds of pressures and different kinds of things we do and I want to talk about For the woman who feels perpetually behind Who just feels like she can’t catch up. We’re gonna come back and have some really practical solutions for you So stay tuned we’re gonna pay some bills and we’ll be right back

Tonya Kubo (14:51.495)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (15:03.104)

Okay, friends, we are back. I’m back with Tonya Kubo, who is not only our co-host, but the leader of all things clutter-free. And I just want to talk about what are the emotional tolls of clutter. You know that I often refer to this UCLA study that says, first of all, one in 11 Americans have so many possessions that they are currently paying for

storage space outside their home. Now this study is 10 years old at least 10 years old, and They haven’t stopped building storage units There are more storage unit businesses in the United States than there are McDonald’s and Subways combined that’s a lot. That is a lot and

Tonya Kubo (15:33.639)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (15:40.306)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (15:52.445)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (15:57.501)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (16:00.462)

In 2009, UCLA found that mothers who described their homes as cluttered, they self-described, they self-identified that their homes are cluttered, have a stress hormone profile indicative of chronic stress. And chronic stress, left untreated, turns into a chronic illness. That is the path. When you are constantly stressed, when you constantly feel your heart racing when you constantly feel

Tonya Kubo (16:09.127)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (16:30.612)

These things and these moms also tended to have more depressed moods throughout the day. Like clutter is affecting our mental health. It is making us sad and depressed. They’re more tired in the evenings. And I think about this. So, Tonya, I am no longer in the thick of it. I do not have kids at my house. When kids come to my house, what they do is they come by to steal food, steal wine.

Tonya Kubo (16:38.332)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (16:52.231)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (16:59.424)

and then go to their friends’ parties in Lake Tahoe. That’s what my kids do when they come to that. But you’re in the thick of it. Describe to me what your house feels like when it’s clear because you had a real clutter issue when your kids were little.

Tonya Kubo (16:59.795)

You

Tonya Kubo (17:08.519)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (17:18.355)

Yes, and because my kids are growing up, we still have clutter issues. They look different, right? I’ve I share this and I’ve been teaching in Clutter-Free for Life recently and I share this with them all the time. It’s like there is always one part of my house that I feel like is absolutely out of control. The difference is, is that in 2014, when I discovered Clutter-Free for Life, or actually 2015, it was my whole house, right? And so now

Kathi (17:23.924)

Right. Yeah.

Kathi (17:37.165)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (17:46.582)

Right. Right.

Tonya Kubo (17:48.207)

I have just accepted that in this phase of life, one part of the house being constantly chaotic is still growth and a win compared to where I used to be.

Kathi (17:59.182)

Tonya, Tonya, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Is still growth?

Tonya Kubo (18:05.253)

It is still growth!

Kathi (18:07.522)

This is such a huge victory, friend. I know it may not feel as different, but what you have done for your kids and for your own mental health is indescribable. It’s huge.

Tonya Kubo (18:10.972)

you

Tonya Kubo (18:18.024)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (18:22.937)

Yes, and it is a victory, but like we say in clutter free, right? It’s not one and done. It never is, right? So many people think, like, if I could just take a whole week off of work and get my house completely decluttered, it’ll be fine. I’ll never have to do it again. And I just feel like it’s so important to point out that for some of us, the goal is to just be better than we were when we started and to be on the path to be better a year from now than where we are right now.

Kathi (18:27.991)

Right, 100%.

Tonya Kubo (18:51.827)

constant state of improvement.

Kathi (18:51.98)

So Tonya, when you were first working the clutter free program, how often were you renting a dumpster?

Tonya Kubo (18:57.704)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (19:02.609)

Well, I had never rented one before we started, but that was like when we recognized we had no space. So we rented one, we could get one. I remember we could get one at a special deal once every three months. And so that’s what we did. The first year was four times. The second year was three times. And then we went to twice a year for a good chunk of years, maybe three years, until we bought this house.

Kathi (19:06.371)

Right?

Yeah.

Kathi (19:25.87)

For a long time, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (19:29.383)

We bought this house and we got one and that’s when they doubled the price. I was not happy, Kathi, at all. They doubled the price. We got one and then we kind of looked and we were like, we had enough for one dump because the way that our town had done it at the time is you would rent it for a month or four empties. And so initially we were filling it four times and then it went to where we’d fill it only like two to three.

Kathi (19:35.498)

I agree.

Kathi (19:48.941)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (19:53.004)

Mmm.

Tonya Kubo (19:56.775)

but that last time we actually did not have enough stuff to fill it once. It was still worthwhile because I still truly appreciate having the immediate free space, but it was huge progress. But what I want to also say is, you when we talk about stress and clutter, if you hear nothing else in this episode, this is what you need to hear. Yes, clutter causes stress and stress causes clutter.

Kathi (20:01.87)

That’s amazing.

Kathi (20:07.874)

Yes.

Kathi (20:24.42)

Yes, ex- go-

Tonya Kubo (20:25.507)

It goes both ways. I don’t want anybody listening to be like, well I’m stressed out because I’m failing at my decluttering because it is the most vicious cycle ever. And it’s one that I am living right now. Now it’s not throughout my whole house, but it’s my desk. So I am in a period of travel, which I don’t love doing during the school year. And when I cannot contain all that I have to do, I start writing everything on sticky notes and color coding them. And I,

I stick the sticky notes all around my, I kid you not, 27 inch monitor. And then when I have filled the edges of my monitor, I start just sticking them in random places all over my desk. And there was a point in time last week where you couldn’t see my desk because there were so many sticky notes of things. Now I will tell you this week, super empowering to be able to get rid of a stack of sticky notes every single day before I go to bed.

Kathi (21:12.504)

Yeah.

Kathi (21:20.258)

Nice So Tonya here’s what I would say too because I don’t want anybody to join us in the free group or potentially be in the clutter free for life group and think This is how I get my house perfect because let me be honest with you I Would still like ten more minutes before somebody comes over like I but but I don’t need

Tonya Kubo (21:45.299)

Amen. Brian would like 10 to 14 business days if you could arrange that for him. That would be his preference.

Kathi (21:55.384)

But here’s the thing, Tonya, and we’ve had this happen before, where friends have been in crisis and they need a place to sleep. And I say, come on down. And we can do that. You can’t do that because you have no room in your house.

Tonya Kubo (22:03.581)

Mm-hmm. Yup.

Tonya Kubo (22:09.381)

I was gonna say I only have as many beds as I have people in this house and well that oftentimes one of us is on the couch.

Kathi (22:17.452)

Yeah, but if somebody needs to come over and grab something to make their dinner, you could let them into your house and you can do that. And that’s the big difference, my friends, you know, that I live in a space that doesn’t stress me out every time I come downstairs. And I, you know, right now my garage is organized like, you know, miracles abound friend. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (22:21.139)

Mm-hmm.

yeah. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (22:34.973)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:41.405)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (22:49.27)

You know, we’ve talked a little bit about Clutterfree Academy, which is our free group that everybody is welcome into. You have to answer a few questions so we know that you’re not trying to one, try to teach other people because you were born organized and you know how to do it because we reject you in the name of Jesus Christ.

Tonya Kubo (23:08.347)

I will say this one more time, we are the kindest quarter of the internet except for that particular type of person.

Kathi (23:14.4)

Yes, yes. But also, we have our Clutter Free for Life group. here’s something I’ve been thinking about recently, Tonya, and a way I’m going to start teaching it in Clutter Free for Life. There are a lot of organization programs out there. And those programs are like

trimming your rose bushes, trimming your plants, like they may look good for a while, but you’re not getting to the root of the problem. And yeah, yeah. No.

Tonya Kubo (23:58.557)

Well, that’s the ultimate issue, isn’t it, Kathi? Please continue. But I mean, that really is the heart of it, is so many initiatives we have tried to solve our problem of clutter is bandaging a deeply infected wound.

Kathi (24:14.966)

Yeah. Yes. And what I want to do is I want you to get to the root of this problem. I want you to get to the place where you are pulling that rose bush that is not producing great roses anymore, but you keep trimming it and hoping it’ll come back and no, we’re just going to pull it out by the roots. And that’s what clutter free for life does, because what we want you to do is we want you to spend

Tonya Kubo (24:39.111)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (24:45.526)

Few minutes 15 minutes every day getting to the root of the issue and that means getting the stuff out of your house getting it out of your space because if You get it out. You never have to deal with that particular item again But if you keep it and organize it and put it into a folder or buy a plastic tub for it You’re gonna have to reorganize it and reorganize it and reorganize it

Tonya Kubo (24:55.324)

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (25:04.167)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (25:15.65)

Dozens of times and if you’re not going to use it, it’s time to remove it

Tonya Kubo (25:21.091)

Mm-hmm. 100%.

Kathi (25:22.766)

So, Tonya, can you explain a little bit of the difference between Clutter-Free Academy, our free group, and Clutter-Free for Life, which is our paid group? And let’s just be honest, we’re doing this podcast because we want to introduce, some of you just need the band-aid every once in a while. But most of the people who are searching out, decluttering, those kind of terms,

Tonya Kubo (25:30.685)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (25:52.65)

on Facebook looking for that kind of help often need deeper help and that’s what clutter free for life does.

Tonya Kubo (25:56.903)

Mm-hmm.

Okay, well, I could fill four episodes with everything that is involved in our Clutterfree Academy program and our Clutterfree for Life membership program. But here’s what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna give you some differences from the perspective of Grace Church. She is the community manager of our Clutterfree for Life, our membership program. And she just says it so well.

First things first, the free group is huge, depending on your relation with size. But it’s inching up towards 16,000 members now. And so it’s huge. So if you are the type of person that really feels like you are all alone in the world, you are the only person who has clutter, you’re the only person who hasn’t figured out how to get on top of your stuff, please by all means come into the free group and see that you have.

roughly about 15,900 close personal friends who also think they’re the only person in the world. If you need to know you’re in good company, by all means go there. If you are somebody who likes a big, busy group, lots of activity, talking about all sorts of different things, all that fall within the spectrum of clutter, Clutterfree Academy is a great place for you. And if you have just like one or two questions about clutter,

Kathi (26:59.977)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (27:21.841)

Like, my gosh, my mom just passed away. We’ve got this milk glass and we have no idea what one does with milk glass. Who here knows? We’re pretty good resource for that kind of thing, too. Excellent resource. However, if you are somebody who prefers a smaller, more intimate group that is action oriented because our free group has people, some people actually don’t believe they have any issue with clutter and they come into the group to prove

Kathi (27:31.381)

Excellent resource.

Tonya Kubo (27:51.461)

somebody in their life wrong, right? Somebody told them they were cluttering. They’re like, I’m not cluttering. I’m gonna go join this cluttering group and prove to you how uncluttery I am. Those folks are in there. Some folks are in there just because their clutter is situational. We get a lot of teachers, for instance, who are changing classrooms, changing jobs, and they’re just in there for some help in getting rid of some of the stuff that they’ve stockpiled. Clutter-free for life is for the person on a mission, right?

They know they have a clutter problem. nobody joins Clutter Free for Life because they’re curious on whether they have a clutter problem. They join because they know what? They have a problem. They want to be in company with other people doing, with the same shared goal, I should say, because not everybody is working on the same thing at the same time, but they all have the same mission. And they like more direct help.

Kathi (28:21.934)

Mm-hmm, right.

Tonya Kubo (28:42.577)

Some of our folks in Clutterfree Academy love the information we share. They binge this podcast. They go through, they pour through the website, but they are not ready to be visible yet, right? They don’t want Kathi to know what they look like. They don’t want Kathi to know them by name. Nobody’s scared of me. Everybody’s happy knowing me by name, but you know, Kathi, they really look to you as a mentor and as an expert. And so in Clutterfree for life is when they’re ready to be seen. We meet on zoom every single week.

Kathi (28:53.485)

Yeah.

You

Kathi (29:09.976)

Yeah.

every single week.

Tonya Kubo (29:12.741)

and we talk through these issues. Now there was a time where the calls on Zoom were just Q &A’s like, come and give us your clutter problems and we’ll answer. And what we have discovered is our people do not appreciate that. They come, they want us to pre-decide, they want us to look at what’s going on, what the theme is, and let them know what’s most important for them to know to take immediate action, and then support them in whatever obstacles are along the way. And so to do all that,

We have a calendar with a day-to-day decluttering plan for you. We do separate it in monthly themes because we have been at this long enough, Kathi Lipp has been at this longer than me, but we’ve been at this longer enough to know those rhythms and routines of where clutter rears its ugly head most often. And honestly, we’re just the nicest stinking people you could ever hope to be with our members. Like I get emotional every time I lead one of our weekly calls.

because they are so generous and so kind and so giving. And there is nobody who will ever answer your question with a, well, what you gotta do is, because all of us are aware that we are no more of an expert on the solution than you are, but we are experts on the journey.

Kathi (30:31.02)

Yes. And it is a journey. It takes time. This is not, like you said, a one and done. This is constantly keeping up on it and reframing how you think about your stuff. That’s a lot of what we do is help you reframe how you think about the things. Because many of us were raised by parents that if you give it away, that means you’re wasteful. Or, you know, that we have these tapes in our head.

that we don’t need to keep. And so we really try to give every, we lend each other our bravery to be able to say, you can get rid of it, it’s gonna be okay. Or, hey, you may need to hold onto that for another three months until you are ready to get rid of it. But in the meantime, here are the other things you can do. So friends, Clutter Free for Life, you can join it any time of the year. It’s 299.

Tonya Kubo (31:25.043)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (31:27.63)

for the entire year or $24.99 per month or right now we’ve got a sale going on and we do this because we want you to be able to try this out and you guys it’s such a good sale it’s $118 for the entire year which is is pretty stunning

Tonya Kubo (31:30.163)

or $24.99 per month.

Kathi (31:55.022)

And you get all the same things that you get when you join at full price But I will say there is a limit to this because we have to hand process each of those ones So we are only offering this price through December 10th 2024 and You will be let into the group. You will get immediate access to our resources in there You’ll be able to look at all the past teaching. So if you’re like

I don’t have a lot going on for Christmas, then what you can do is you can start watching the videos. You can start being a part of the discussions. And can I just tell you this clutter free Academy is the kindest corner of the Internet. Clutter free for life is the kindest corner of the kindest corner of the Internet. You will never be shamed. You will never be said, you know, told, that’s what your house looks like because we’ve all been there.

Tonya and I were both raised by hoarders. My dad was a hoarder. Yeah, Tonya’s, my dad was a hoarder. Tonya’s mom was a hoarder. We get it, friends. We get that this, this is really hard, but we want you to be a part of it. So if you want to be a part of Clutter Free for Life, all you have to do is go to the show notes. We have a link there. It’s kathi.link/CFL and

Tonya Kubo (32:55.539)

Yeah, nothing ever surprises me. Nope.

Kathi (33:21.567)

You will get all the information you need. We would love for you to come and join. You can bring your clutter burdens to us. We will talk about it. Plus, you’re going to have hundreds of other people in there who have been through this journey and can give you the advice you need, not just the advice, the encouragement. So I want you to come check it out because it is a pretty spectacular place to be. Tonya, any final words of encouragement for our friends here?

Tonya Kubo (33:52.173)

You know what? It is not a personal failing to need help with your clutter. When I think back to a lot of our new members or a lot of the conversations I have with people in the free group who are thinking about joining the membership, what I hear a lot of is like, I should be able to do this, right? And I’m like, I’ve got a bachelor’s degree, a master’s degree and a whole lot of life experience and I need help.

Even if I wasn’t on the team, I’d be paying to be part of this group because I need the plan. I need to know what the next step is and I need support in getting there and it’s okay if you do too.

Kathi (34:31.63)

We need support from each other. We just need support from each other to continue on the journey. Tonya, thank you so much for your wisdom today. Friends, thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to ClutterFree Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.