Kathi (00:01.669)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our heart is to help you live with less clutter and more life. And today, I think this is gonna be a turning point episode for some of you. If you live with a hoarder,

If you grew up with a hoarder, if you have a hoarder in your extended family, today’s episode is for you. As many of you know, I grew up with a hoarder. Tanya, who is our most frequent co -host on here, also grew up with a hoarder. And I’ve got a new friend, guys. This is Hilary Prall. She is the creative mind behind Hilary Prall Vlog. It’s an online play. By the way, the website is gorgeous.

She had it’s it’s a vibrant like eclectic vibe I don’t even know how else to put it and if you guys are not seeing if you’re if you’re not watching this you’re just hearing this if You could just see Hillary’s background, you’d know what I was talking about, but we’re gonna put all the links in there She has featured regularly on the Des Moines NBC affiliate who TV She she’s all over the place on home retail block. So like I

Guys, she’s a designer. She’s got incredible style, but she has this part of her story that we’re going to dive deep into today. Hillary, welcome to the podcast.

Hilary Prall (01:38.988)

Hello, thank you for having me.

Kathi (01:41.125)

Well, I’m so excited because to Neil who is on my team introduced us and she she’s like you have to have Hillary on your podcast and I said say less and then I started to dig into what you’re all about. So tell us tell us what you’re about your day job. Let’s just start there. What’s your day job?

Hilary Prall (01:58.603)

Okay, yeah. My day job is basically content creation, digital content creation. And I feel like sort of part of where I am with my business ties into what we’ll talk about today with my mom, Justin. Things have sort of come to a little bit of a stall over the last couple of years working through things with my mom’s estate. But looking really forward to getting back on track of…

creating content and building a brand of business. I started out, I worked in retail for 20 years and I loved that, but it was nothing that I intended to do for so long. And I got started working with real estate agents and just local people doing some decorating and staging. Finally left my nine to five and pursued that full time.

Kathi (02:34.341)

you

Kathi (02:38.565)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (02:53.386)

as well as creating content online. And a couple of years ago, I thought, I can’t do both of these things to their fullest capacity. That’s not my personality. Like we talked about to Neil being able to do all the things. I am not able to do all the things. So I sort of pulled back from the decorating end and I could always go back to that. Not that I think that I will, but I wanted to see if I could harness what the internet had to offer for creating content, encouraging people.

Kathi (02:59.621)

Right?

Kathi (03:06.437)

Hehehe.

Kathi (03:19.589)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (03:22.569)

inspiring them. That’s truly what I enjoy doing. I think we all have so many shared experiences that it’s hard to connect sometimes with the right people and find people who are like us, who share our stories. And so that is a big part of what I do in my space. I am very real. I do share all the good things and all the bad things. So.

Kathi (03:36.164)

Yeah.

Kathi (03:46.757)

Yeah, I started following her on Instagram and she’s a good follow you guys. She really is very down to earth and realistic but also inspirational which is kind of a hard line to walk but this is why I really wanted to talk to you was because I think you have the life that many of us who feel like we’re drowning in clutter. Your life online, while it looks real, it also looks beautiful.

Hilary Prall (03:51.049)

Hehehe.

Kathi (04:16.549)

And I think that’s what we want, but so many of us have the story of either we were raised by a hoarder or maybe we have those tendencies ourselves and we just feel like there is no hope for us. And when I heard about your journey with your mom, I wanted to dig a little deeper. So your mom would be considered a hoarder?

Hilary Prall (04:41.256)

Yes, I think for all intents and purposes she would. I mean, it’s not, I don’t know the legal definition of what a hoarder is. So some, she, I would say she always had the tendency. She grew up in a family that she never felt like they had anything nice. You know, her parents were raised during the depression. So, you know, you definitely may do and there’s nothing wrong with that. But along with that came some really,

Kathi (04:46.053)

Right.

Kathi (04:54.437)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:02.629)

Yeah.

Right.

Hilary Prall (05:09.671)

tough things as well. And I know that even people from that generation took that and just ran with it to the nth degree. So I think, I think, you know, even early in my parents’ marriage, they didn’t have the finances probably that she would have wanted. And so she couldn’t buy everything that she wanted. And my dad helped her to keep that in check to some degree. But when he passed away in 2004, it was just like, it,

Kathi (05:30.245)

Right?

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (05:39.622)

I just felt like it just happened instantly, but it definitely had different waves of how it happened. It looked like her going to Target and shopping the clearance end caps and then, you know, whatever was on clearance, it was always, it wasn’t having something nice. It wasn’t like she went and bought one diamond ring. It was, you know, a hundred junky things.

Kathi (05:52.005)

Right.

Kathi (06:04.933)

Right.

Hilary Prall (06:05.829)

it was just to fill that void. She got really into home shopping network. I think just finding that connection with somebody. And then she got into thrifting, which we had grown up going to garage sales, but we didn’t really go to the thrift store. That wasn’t something that was like normal to us, but she really got into that Facebook marketplace, you know, whatever it was, wherever she could get a deal and she would drag stuff home. So,

Kathi (06:10.245)

Hmm.

Kathi (06:17.701)

wow.

Kathi (06:22.341)

Yeah.

Kathi (06:31.429)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (06:34.949)

The first sort of round of it was she ended up selling our childhood home to my sister and my brother -in -law on contract. So she had to clear out to move and then she moved into a townhouse and…

Part of, she filled it, obviously. But also during that time she was doing a lot of hiding. So she had a couple of relationships that she wasn’t totally honest with us about and was just really in hiding. I can count on two hands the number of times I was in that house. And every time I went there it was fuller and fuller and…

Kathi (06:55.493)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:05.637)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (07:12.261)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (07:18.34)

you know, there would be things like my wanted my childhood bedroom set and she couldn’t let go of that. That was hers. And just, I mean, she so I mean, it definitely was. I think that is a part of being a hoarder is everything is yours. You’re just gripping onto it so tightly. So she she quite filled that house and it was just a really big source of contention. From there, she did meet someone and.

Kathi (07:25.765)

Hmm.

Kathi (07:31.813)

Yeah. Right.

Hilary Prall (07:46.883)

was getting remarried in 2013 and we’re very happy and we were very honest with him. This is, you’re getting yourself into something here, but I don’t think you couldn’t, unless you’ve seen it or been involved in it, you can’t wrap your head around it. So we were able to get her moved from that house finally. She kept the house even after she got married for a couple of years, but then it was like, this is silly.

Kathi (07:55.557)

Right.

Kathi (08:00.261)

Right. Yeah.

Kathi (08:13.125)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (08:13.155)

But that meant she filled two storage units. She filled his giant Morton building. She, you know, started filling his basement and then just continued. So it was a big issue within their marriage as well.

Kathi (08:27.877)

So first of all, it is just so heartbreaking because hoarders and it does, I mean, again, I’m not a clinical psychologist, but it does sound like she has the classic symptoms of hoarding. Mom, why are you keeping this? And there’s not really a good explanation, but to take it from her would be devastating.

Hilary Prall (08:41.953)

absolutely.

Hilary Prall (08:53.633)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (08:53.989)

and the buying things that they don’t need and the hiding and the anger at anybody trying to change anything or judge anything. And so it does sound like she has some of the classic hallmarks of hoarding. And there’s not a lot that family can do. There just isn’t. So part of my question is,

Hilary Prall (09:18.177)

No.

Kathi (09:23.877)

Why do you think that you did not go in the same direction? Why do you think or did you did you like part of my story is my dad was a hoarder and I started to hang on to too much stuff. And then I got to a point where it’s like, no, I can’t live like this. I can’t be, you know, for me, it was clutter. It wasn’t hoarding, but I could definitely see the tendencies in my life. So where did you fall on that scale?

Hilary Prall (09:28.992)

Hmm.

Hilary Prall (09:37.248)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (09:51.072)

Sure, I mean I definitely have the tendencies. I mean, you know, and I love vintage, I love old things. So it’s been difficult going through my mom’s stuff because she kept, my grandma came out of, you know, the Victorian era where you did literally keep everything, you know, and then she was in the depression. And so she kept not only like sentimental things but,

Kathi (09:54.565)

Yeah.

Kathi (09:58.245)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (10:09.829)

Right.

Right.

Hilary Prall (10:19.935)

useful things. And so when she passed away, my mom, her siblings came and they took, you know, the few things that they wanted. And then literally, I think she hauled everything else home. So in having to go through all of my mom’s stuff, you know, there’s also a lot of family stuff and it’s hard to, it’s hard to decide because I love old things. It’s not just that it was family stuff, but it’s old stuff. So I feel like it has meaning. Like I don’t want to just see it.

Kathi (10:21.143)

Right.

Kathi (10:45.765)

Right.

Hilary Prall (10:49.151)

go in a dumpster somewhere or whatever. I think the difference comes in that because I’ve had to deal with this, a lot of things have lost sentimentality. Definitely for my sister. She couldn’t care less about most things. I go through seasons. I’ve been taking things to auction myself. So part of how my business started was buying and reselling vintage. So it’s definitely in my

Kathi (10:59.045)

Mmm.

Kathi (11:03.781)

Yeah.

Kathi (11:16.325)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (11:18.974)

in my DNA and I would say anybody who buys and sells vintage, it’s a really hard thing to stop. So it just is and you have to, there’s nothing wrong with it, but when it starts to cause you stress is when, that’s when it bothers my husband. Okay, it’s stressing you out, you’re causing yourself stress.

Kathi (11:20.293)

Right.

Kathi (11:26.373)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kathi (11:37.125)

Yes. Okay. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (11:42.558)

I have one room in our basement left that I’m working through, but I like to think that I don’t cling to things like she did. I’m willing to get rid of them. I try to give things to people who would enjoy them. I can see that it’s just stuff. So…

Kathi (11:50.949)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (12:00.681)

So we’re gonna take a quick break and when we come back I want to know how did you get to that point of knowing I love I really you know, I enjoy this I can appreciate it I may even love it, but I can’t keep everything so I would love to hear some of your thought process behind that and how you got to that point in your journey because as a designer as a decorator I

I bet you could imagine a use for almost anything and I would love to hear how you’re able to curate what you’re deciding to keep and what you’re giving away. So we will take a quick break and come right back.

Hey guys, we are back with Hilary Prall, who is a designer, a decorator, an online content creator, influencer, and daughter of a hoarder. And so we were just discussing, Hilary, how are you able to keep from keeping all the things?

Hilary Prall (13:06.587)

Number one, I try to keep what my goals are in mind. We have a goal of moving from our house eventually and moving to a town that we really love. And so the thought of having to move all of this stuff, we moved from a house that was half the size of our house now when we bought this house in 2018. And at that time I got rid of a lot of stuff. I collected…

Kathi (13:12.901)

Hmm.

Kathi (13:23.397)

Hmm.

Hilary Prall (13:35.355)

vintage Pyrex and I had so much you couldn’t imagine it. But I got rid of a lot because I thought I’m gonna have nowhere to put it and I don’t want to move it. So I do have that goal of eventually you know us downsizing. I don’t want to take care of a big house. It’s just the two of us and I just don’t want that to fill my mind and my space. I have gotten better in creating content. I do

Kathi (13:51.269)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (14:04.346)

some DIYs and things like that. So I would accumulate things at the thrift store that I think, this would be a good project or whatever. I can go to the thrift store any day of the week and find a project to do. So I’ve tried to keep that in mind that I don’t need to keep a stash of, unless it’s something really unique and cool, I don’t need to have a stash of things like that. I’m constantly getting rid of. So I think that’s important. That is, it’s an ever evolving door here, whether I’m giving it to friends or,

Kathi (14:14.853)

Hmm.

Kathi (14:21.573)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Hilary Prall (14:34.298)

giving it to the thrift store, selling it, whatever that looks like. I do think you have to get over the part that you spent money on it. You can nickel and dime yourself to death. If it’s a really something that’s valuable, sell it. I have discovered it’s really easy to take stuff to our local auction house. So I can set up an appointment and just take the load and then they, whatever’s left, they liquidate. I don’t have to worry about it.

Kathi (14:42.245)

Yes, yes.

Hilary Prall (15:03.577)

So for me, that has become the best option for getting rid of a lot of stuff that to me has value. It’s not just garbage.

Kathi (15:10.949)

I think it’s great that you have found your path of least resistance and for you it’s the auction house and I think we all need to figure that out. Is it straight donation? Is it selling it on Facebook or Marketplace? What is it for you? And get really good at that and rinse and repeat, absolutely.

Hilary Prall (15:20.097)

Yeah. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (15:33.98)

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it’s, you know, I understand the guilt is there. So, okay, what does that do for you? You know, I mean, learn from it is all you can do. You know, maybe set a financial goal of something else that you would really enjoy and then, you know, sell your stuff or don’t buy new stuff.

Kathi (15:44.613)

Right, yes.

Hilary Prall (15:56.248)

Unfortunately, I probably would make a lot of environmentalists cry because I’m not doing a lot of recycling or you know, whatever. It just has to go. I think if you get that into your head, get rid of it. Just get rid of it. Don’t, you know, you’re not saving the planet in this one in this one moment. So I don’t, you know, one thing that my mom had was she would save. She had tons of medical.

Kathi (16:03.205)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kathi (16:17.157)

Right.

Hilary Prall (16:24.599)

stuff that would come, whether it was a bill or insurance or whatever, and they always have that blank sheet of paper on the front of the back, and she would save it as scratch paper. She had more scratch paper than any one person could ever use, and so going through her stuff, I was like, gosh, I’m just gonna throw away all this scratch paper. It’s like, yes, just get rid of it, burn it, whatever.

Kathi (16:25.957)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (16:36.933)

Right. Yeah.

Kathi (16:44.045)

Yeah. You know, I think, and I really do believe this is true, the best way for us to make an environmental impact is to choose who we’re buying from and what we’re buying. And instead of on the back end, once we already have the stuff and having to make those decisions. And we recycle, we bring out a big tub of recycling every single.

Hilary Prall (17:00.85)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (17:12.805)

But our community is set up for it and not all communities are. And so do what you can, but really if your biggest concern is the environment, it’s the not purchasing in the first place.

Hilary Prall (17:16.47)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (17:27.765)

Absolutely, and I would I would go a little bit further and say, you know, there’s even a new trend to like

I would say almost glamorize the reusable or the whatever. And so it’s almost like there’s an encouragement to like, okay, I have this bottle, but here’s this other bottle that’s really biodegradable and whatever. So you better throw away this bottle and go buy the other bottle. No, that’s no, you know, so then, but probably what would happen is you’d end up with like five of the bottles or whatever.

Kathi (17:42.501)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (17:52.197)

Right.

Kathi (17:56.549)

Yeah, it makes no sense.

Hilary Prall (18:05.396)

One thing my husband and I have done is just tried to focus on buying the best of whatever we’re buying. Buy at your top dollar. So hopefully it lasts and hopefully you’re just getting what you want. I think a big part of how hoarding can come about is that you feel like you’re never actually getting what you want. It’s the same with food addiction or whatever. You’re just not feeling fulfilled in it. So.

Kathi (18:11.045)

Mm. Right.

Yes.

Kathi (18:26.533)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, yeah. Right. Because that target clearance purchase fills a need in the moment, but it doesn’t fill a long -term need. It fills that high of buying something. And by the way, I totally resonate with that high of buying something. But for me, it could be the high of buying a Costco chicken. Like, there, I…

Hilary Prall (18:40.468)

Mm -hmm. nope.

Kathi (18:58.213)

To me, it’s the same thing. And it’s like, okay, but also I’m learning to say, you know what, there’s also a thrill in using what I have. There’s also a thrill in feeling like I’m being wise and clever and smart with what I actually have. So how do you, what’s the thing that you say to yourself when you are purchasing something or when you’re considering purchasing something?

How what you know from vintage items to maybe you know craft supply whatever that is Do you have like? This is why i’m buying it. Do you have questions you ask yourself? Do you have something? What’s that thought process so that you are not acquiring and by the way? I love what you said about keeping the end goal in mind If the end goal is to move if the end goal is to enjoy your house

Hilary Prall (19:50.994)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (19:57.17)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (19:57.477)

and not feel overstuffed. If your end goal is to save up for a vacation, those end goals do not align with buying the clearance stuff at Target 99 % of the time. So I love that. So I would love to know, how do you keep that end goal in mind? What do you say to yourself when you’re considering a purchase?

Hilary Prall (20:10.641)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (20:19.249)

Well, I need to do better about it. I feel like I go in shifts. So one thing that I try…

Kathi (20:22.021)

We all do.

Hilary Prall (20:30.129)

I’ll phrase it this way. One thing that I do try to do is I am a very out of sight, out of mind person. So that means if my stuff isn’t out on display for me to enjoy, I don’t even care about it. So I think that is a little bit different than hoarders because they can pinpoint exactly where everything is and they’re very still concerned with it.

Kathi (20:47.205)

Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Hilary Prall (20:54.192)

That doesn’t mean I don’t have stuff still in my house that I’m not using or enjoying, but that’s out of laziness or whatever. But I try to keep that in focus. If I’m not using certain things, they can go by the wayside. So as I bring things in, can I take something out that is similar or that I’m not loving anymore? You know, I have a basement that I love very different styles of vintage. So our basement is like,

Kathi (21:14.853)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (21:24.016)

bright and colorful and has vintage board games and things like that. I’ve reached my capacity of vintage board games, I think, unless there’s just something that’s outstanding. So I think knowing, I mean, where’s the end? What’s your end? What’s the limit? Because I know that I want to be able to display these things. It’s not that I want to put them in a room for a later date.

Kathi (21:32.773)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (21:40.389)

Right.

Hilary Prall (21:49.807)

I have an entire wall filled with vintage paint by numbers. I don’t have any more room for paint by numbers. So unless one is just fabulous, there’s no reason for me to bring that home. So curation, I have a lot of stuff, but I think for the most part, I know when things are getting out of hand because stuff starts to feel wonky or off kilter or too crowded.

Kathi (22:01.605)

Mmm. I love that. It’s curation. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (22:17.871)

I think for the most part I still have visual space around everything. A lot of stacks and things like that, but I also know that I really don’t hold tightly to anything. If someone came in and said, Hillary, you need to sell all this stuff, great, that’s totally fine. But I know that telling that to my mom, that wouldn’t have mattered. Yeah.

Kathi (22:17.925)

Mm.

Kathi (22:22.213)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (22:42.725)

No, it would have been a very different thing. I love where you have come from in your journey to this because I think that one of the things that us cluttery people know, I think this is a really good sign of health, that we can be extremists sometimes. Either I’m a hoarder or a minimalist. And I think that there is a happy place. As a cluttery person, I enjoy stuff.

Hilary Prall (23:06.094)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (23:12.709)

I really do, but I also know that too much stuff will really weigh me down. So there’s a sweet spot and it sounds like in your business, in your personal kind of thinking around stuff, you have found that sweet spot of I’m not a hoarder, I’m not a minimalist, I’m Hillary, I have found.

Hilary Prall (23:12.878)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (23:40.589)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (23:41.765)

what works for me and I can feel when I want something new in my house, I can also feel when there’s too much in my house and to let that guide you. I think that that’s really, really amazing. Hillary, this has been such a great conversation. I would love to bring you back and talk a little bit more about as somebody who understands clutter, as somebody who has lived with a hoarder and doesn’t want to be on that end of it,

but also somebody who makes their living by creating spaces that they really, really love and other people love. How do we find that intersection? So if you’d be willing to come back, I would love to have that discussion with you. Okay, guys, I’m gonna put all of Hillary’s links and where to find her. Guys, go follow her on Instagram. She, just looking at her board, you’re…

Hilary Prall (24:25.259)

Absolutely.

Kathi (24:40.741)

You’re gonna be inspired, you’re gonna be encouraged, and you’re gonna know she’s one of us, so it’s okay. That she is not judging you for not having all of it together because we’re all works in progress. You guys have been listening to Clutter -Free Academy, I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter -free life you’ve always wanted to.