#642 – Financial Organization Made Easy: The Binder Method with Lisa Woodruff

#642 – Financial Organization Made Easy: The Binder Method with Lisa Woodruff

642 – Financial Organization Made Easy: The Binder Method with Lisa Woodruff

Hey there, friend! 

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, we sit down with Lisa Woodruff, founder of Organize 365 and creator of the PaperSolution Financial Binder. Join us as discuss the importance of organizing financial documents and how it can simplify estate planning and reduce stress for families. 

Listen along to learn: 

  • Why everyone needs a financial binder, regardless of wealth
  • The difference between a binder and digital solutions 
  • What to include in your financial binder 
  • Real-life stories of how organization saved families time and money
  • Tips for getting started with financial organization

Lisa shares practical advice on how to begin organizing financial documents, including setting up a designated container for collecting important papers. She emphasizes the peace of mind that comes from having all crucial information in one place, especially during unexpected events like natural disasters or family emergencies. 

You’ll also will learn how to create a financial binder and keep things such as financial information easily accessible. Don’t miss this invaluable conversation that will empower you to take control of your financial organization and protect your family’s future. 

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

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Meet Our Guest

 

Lisa Woodruff

Lisa Woodruff is the founder & CEO of Organize 365®.

Lisa and 87% of America believe organization is a learnable skill. Yet less than 18% of those same Americans feel they are organized. Through The Productive Home Solution® course, Lisa aims to teach American’s young & old the skill of organizing and unlocking their time for what they are uniquely created to do.

As the host of the top-rated Organize 365 Podcast, with 23 million downloads & counting, Lisa shares strategies for reducing the overwhelm, clearing the mental clutter, and living a productive and organized life. Her sensible and doable organizing tasks appeal to multiple generations and her candor and relatable style make you feel as though she is right there beside you, helping you get organized as you laugh and cry together.

Under Lisa’s direction, Organize 365 has conducted academic research establishing the definitions of housework, home organization and the weight of paper in the American home. This ongoing research is making the invisible work at home visible to all so we can eliminate it and free people from the monotonous tasks of daily living and unlock their time for what they are uniquely created to bring forth in the world.

She is the author of four books including, How ADHD Affects Home Organization and The Paper Solution. Lisa’s understanding of the lived female American experience has helped her to create products & courses like the Sunday Basket® that externalize the routine tasks that take up the executive functioning capacity of our brains, freeing us up to think and create again!

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Transcript

Kathi (00:00) 

Okay, this is Kathi and Lisa Woodruff and we’re talking about the financial binder. Five, four, three, two, one. Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter -Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And guys, today, okay, it’s the subject that has… 

 

Roger and I don’t fight much. In fact, we rarely fight. But if we were going to fight, it would be over finances. It just would be. And I’ve got somebody here who is going to make things a whole lot easier for us. You guys, it’s Lisa Woodruff. She is the founder of Organize 365. I love that name. She’s a professional organizer. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (00:37) 

Ha 

  

Kathi (00:55) 

and she’s here to solve all of our problems. Lisa, welcome to the podcast. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (01:00) 

Kathi, thank you for the introduction. I’m not solving all of the problems, but I will be a friend on the journey. Let’s put it that way. 

  

Kathi (01:03) 

Wait Lisa promises were made no I get it. You know if if you could make this part of our lives 7 % easier that would feel like solving all of our problems. Okay, so here’s my here’s my question Are you just one of those born organized people who was color coding your things in the crib and now we can’t learn anything from you 

  

Lisa Woodruff (01:18) 

Mm 

  

Okay, I can do that. 

  

Well, I was a born organized person, I can’t lie. And my mother did take me shopping with a button box and she would put me on the floor at like Talbot’s or whatever. And I would sort buttons by color for like an hour so she could shop. 

  

Kathi (01:37) 

Okay. 

  

Yeah. 

  

I love that so much. Okay. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (01:47) 

However, it doesn’t matter if you’re born organized or not born organized, eventually in your lifetime, you are going to become roadkill because life is going to move too fast and you can’t keep up. And you need different organization about every 10 to 20 years. So childhood organization doesn’t work for 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, et cetera. And organization is a learnable skill. So I’m a teacher by trade and I took my born organized -ness and my ability to teach and my roadkill. 

  

Kathi (02:08) 

Right. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (02:17) 

decade and I put them all together in my 40s and organized 365 like okay here’s here’s where you know raw talent meets real life and then how can we all actually do this. 

  

Kathi (02:27) 

Okay, because here’s the thing, guys, I’m gonna, full disclosure, Lisa and I met before, and the reason I met with Lisa before is because I don’t let born organized people come on here that think that they are better than us wonderful, talented, creative, but cluttery folk, right? Because we all have different gifts and different skills, and I think you’re absolutely right. Those of us who loved our color coordinated peachies, 

  

Lisa Woodruff (02:33) 

You 

  

Bye! 

  

Yeah. 

  

Right. 

  

Kathi (02:56) 

in the fourth grade, we need an entirely different set of skills. And you know, I’ve just discovered this about myself. The person, the Kathi who sets up the system and the Kathi who has to use the system. Okay, she’s throwing, right, you’re throwing your hands. Okay, you’ve known this much sooner than I have. Explain how you understand this pain. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (02:58) 

Right. 

  

Amen. Two different Kathis. 

  

Mm 

  

Well, I’ve been recently diagnosed with ADHD. First of all, I don’t know how you’re a woman without it because there are so many things we have to do. But also, mean, setting it up as a project, that’s fun. Using it is work, like that’s not fun. 

  

Kathi (03:28) 

sister, right? Yes. 

  

That’s fun! 

  

Yes, it’s so true, right? And you want me to stop for three whole minutes to put something away? Have we met? Right. It’s so boring. The day to day is so boring. okay. So you were a naturally organized person. So when you and I were talking, was, I, you have a bunch of different binders. First of all, why a binder and not an app? That’s part of my question. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (03:43) 

Yes. 

  

Mm 

  

Okay, so we have why a binder and not an app and why a binder and not a file. So why a binder and not a file is step one. And that’s because, you know, I used to like try to teach people how to do file cabinets. I wasn’t very good at it, but like everybody did it. So that’s what I did until the California fires and the Houston earth, the Houston hurricanes came through and I’ve got customers, you know, messaging me from inside of their attics with hatchets so they can break through the roof. I’m like, 

  

Kathi (04:14) 

Yeah. 

  

Right. 

  

Yes, yeah. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (04:40) 

I live in Ohio. Like I have no sense for what these people are talking about. And yet they’re like, I have my Sunday basket with me, but what about my filing cabinet? I’m like, it’s just going to be gone. Like all that information is going to be gone. So it must be a binder. 

  

Kathi (04:42) 

Correct. 

  

And Sunday Basket is like your day -to -day organization stuff, right? Okay. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (04:56) 

Yeah, it’s your weekly organizing. So the binder is portable and that is crucial for two reasons. One, if you live in any of the coastal areas, you will evacuate at some point. But two, whenever you need this information, you don’t need it in a file cabinet. You need it at the lawyers, at the hospital, at the wherever. Like your information needs to be portable. So that’s why it’s a binder. And why not an app? Well, you know, everything Organize 365 does is analog because I’m a kindergarten teacher. Like every single human can use my products. 

  

Kathi (05:01) 

Mm -hmm. 

  

Yeah. Yeah. 

  

It’s so true. Yeah. 

  

Mm -hmm. Right. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (05:26) 

You can digitize it and make it your own productive thing if you want, but here’s the thing. An app is not necessarily shareable and it doesn’t necessarily stay up to date. So maybe your family is super high tech and you’re all on like Google Drive and you have a password protected and so you have all of your financial information in there and you share it with your siblings and your parents and like your Uber or whatever. I don’t even know who this family is. But as soon as you forget to update the app, it’s pointless. And if you don’t have the password, it’s pointless. 

  

Kathi (05:33) 

Mm -hmm. Yeah. 

  

Yes. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (05:54) 

So apps are personal organization. Binders are global organization. So you’re going to organize in a binder in analog. And we’re going to talk about the financial binder today. The financial binder is like 30 % in your file cabinet, 50 % on your computer, and 20 % in your brain. So even if your family gets to your file cabinet, they only get 30 % of the information. And even if they get online, they’re not going to go to every place that you have stored your information. 

  

Kathi (06:00) 

and trisome. 

  

Okay. 

  

Hmm. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (06:20) 

So it is a way for you to keep your information updated if you update it annually. And then when you actually need it, which is when someone is gonna be your power of attorney or your power of healthcare or your settle your estate, that is like, you’ve just saved them a year’s worth of work. And when I had to settle my dad’s estate, I didn’t find almost everything that I needed because I just didn’t even know how I would find it. So that’s why not an app. 

  

Kathi (06:20) 

Yeah. 

  

Right, absolutely. You know, and if you didn’t have a good answer for why not an app, and I knew you did, I was going to give you my good answer is that it would completely intimidate my mom, who this is, in our family, that’s the most pressing need, right? So, you know, my husband and I are both pretty techie, but it’s interesting. We’re in between two kind of non -techie 

  

Lisa Woodruff (06:46) 

you 

  

Right, right. 

  

Kathi (07:09) 

Our kids are more analog or at least the kid who is responsible enough to do things with our estate. You have to know your kids, right? You know, the one who’s actually gonna do something. And my mom, it would have been really intimidating for her to have to get online. Now she’s able to look things up in small portions as we go through this binder, but she’s not having to input it there, which has been… 

  

Lisa Woodruff (07:33) 

Mm -hmm. 

  

Kathi (07:40) 

which has been a godsend, I’m not gonna lie. Okay, so a couple of questions, Lisa. We’re not rich, do we really need to do this? 

  

Lisa Woodruff (07:48) 

Okay. So first of all, we’re talking about, we like started mid sentence. So this is the organized 365 financial binder. And it was created after I had to settle my dad’s estate. I had to be the power of attorney. And then I was the executor of the estate. And I went to Amazon to Google, like, give me Mad Libs for settling an estate. Doesn’t exist. They’re like four books and that’s it. There’s no like, let me just plug everything into this system. And your financial picture is, has a lot of parts to it. 

  

Kathi (07:52) 

yes, that’s true. Yeah. 

  

Right? 

  

Yeah. 

  

I love it. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (08:18) 

So what you normally hear about is have a will. You should have a will. Have a trust. If you have any assets, you should have a trust. Have a 401k and make sure you have a beneficiary. Agreed. These things are the easiest things to do as the executor. Literally within one week of my dad’s passing, we’d already cashed out the 401k. My sister and I had the money. We transferred the cars into our name. We’d transfer the house into my name. Like that all happened within 10 days. However, the administration of your life 

  

Kathi (08:18) 

Yeah. 

  

Okay. 

  

Hmm 

  

Wow. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (08:47) 

needs to be accounted for. A final tax return needs to be done. All of the assets needs to be distributed. You have to get out of the Verizon contract, which is the hardest thing to do. You have to settle every single credit card. You have to shut down the banks. have to like, and none of this is done by your CPA, your tax lawyer. My dad had all the lawyers within a month. They were all gone. And I was just left doing the housework for my dad, just like I do the housework for me. And that’s what people don’t realize. It usually falls to a woman. 

  

Kathi (08:57) 

right? Yeah. 

  

you 

  

It does. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (09:17) 

And it’s all the administration. Like I’m getting my PhD now and the only literature that we have about this is widowed women who have so much hard time being the administrator of their spouse’s estate. Because you’re also grieved. It’s not like you’re like, yeah, I’m gonna add this to my checklist. No, you’re all of sudden sometimes unexpectedly planning a funeral for someone you love. And now you realize that you were named in their will as the executor. And you’re like, I don’t even know what that is. 

  

Kathi (09:30) 

And yes. 

  

Yeah, and it’s interesting because, my mom’s done all this stuff and I’m the executor of her will and I really don’t understand it all because all of this happened with her parents when I was, yeah, I was in the middle of diapers, you know, yeah, I didn’t, I didn’t think it through. But as I’ve seen friends go through it and they talk about this, this huge burden and you’re right, like, you know, who’s the executor of ours is one of our daughters. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (09:59) 

too young. Yep. 

  

Kathi (10:14) 

Because we know she’ll show up and we know she’ll do the right things and not that the boys wouldn’t but yeah, well anyway, that’s a different discussion. We love our boys, but I think that when we say the word estate, we think vast riches and wealth and most of us. Yeah, I would not think of those things as the estate, right? Okay, so. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (10:32) 

And I mean your water bill, your garbage bill, your Verizon bill. Right, that’s your estate. 

  

Kathi (10:45) 

My next question is, you know what? We’re gonna take a quick break. We’re gonna go pay some bills. We’re gonna come back. And then I wanna talk about how do you actually get started with, like what’s in here? You’ve told us a little bit, but like what’s actually in here? And I need some easy steps to get started because if you say, Kathi, I need you to copy your entire financial history or your mom’s entire financial history into this. 

  

It’s a very short interview. So we’re gonna take a podcast break. We’re gonna come back and then we’re gonna get started with that question. 

  

 BREAK 11:19 

  

Kathi (11:34) 

Guys, I am back with Lisa Woodruff, who is the founder of Organize 365, and she is the creator of the PaperSolution Financial Binder. And when we were first talking financial binder, I’m like, why do I need a binder for my bank account? But really, what your end goal with this binder is what? That somebody can do what with it? 

  

Lisa Woodruff (12:00) 

that if anything were to happen to me, that someone could step in and be power of attorney and ultimately settle my estate. Like we’re all gonna live to be forever, know, a million years old. Don’t worry about it. Nothing is happening to you. However, once you’ve settled in a state, you’re like, my gosh, like if you’ve ever settled in a state, the first thing you do is you go home and you clean out your storage room because you’re like, I am not leaving this problem for someone else. And my husband and I are gonna settle at least five estates. You know, we have siblings and we’re both the oldest. We both have parents. 

  

Kathi (12:09) 

Absolutely. Right. 

  

Hmm, yeah. 

  

Right. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (12:27) 

They were divorced, so they have, you know, like we are listed on everybody’s. So that is the ultimate, but you know, that’s so far down the road. Then you can like kick this can and be like, I’m not going to do this. So what is in the binder? Number one, you do have some things that you just need. You would put in a file cabinet. So instead of a file cabinet, you’re going to put it your financial binder, like your latest 401k statement. I always keep my social security statement. 

  

Kathi (12:29) 

yeah. 

  

Mm -hmm. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (12:53) 

Like I’m not hope, I don’t know if I’ll ever get this money, but I’m keeping the letters that they send like every couple of years. birth certificate, I put my passport in there, put our marriage certificate in there, my kids adoption certificates are in there, so any of those kind of important papers. I do have in there like our credit report when we get a credit report. If we sign up for a new credit card, I put the credit card in there, so like I just have like that introductory thing that you’re probably never gonna need it. 

  

Kathi (12:55) 

Right. Yes. 

  

Mm -hmm. 

  

interesting, yeah. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (13:19) 

but you want to put it in file cabinet, you might as well put it in here. You’re really making a scavenger hunt for yourself and others. So if you need it. So like if you pay off a car, that goes in there, like all of our car information is in there. All of my insurance information is in there, life insurance, but also fire, auto, all of that insurance. Anything related to our security system is in there, ADT. Again, life insurance will pay out within a week. Like anything that has a beneficiary attached to it, you will get the money like, 

  

Kathi (13:22) 

Yeah. 

  

Yeah. Yes. 

  

Hmm. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (13:47) 

It’s almost instantaneous. It’s amazing how fast it happens. And the more organized you are, the better. So my husband has a couple of different retirement accounts. I have a couple of retirement accounts. Whenever they give you the annual statement, I just replace it in there and shred the old one. It’s just kind of like you would in your file cabinet. So that’s number one. Just anything you would file, it goes in there and you just keep the most recent one. 

  

Kathi (13:56) 

Right? 

  

smart. Right. 

  

Okay, I love that. Go ahead. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (14:13) 

So then the second thing is, you I had my father pass, I had a couple of employees who also had settled estates we started compiling all the things that we had to find that we didn’t know we had to find. Like my dad had been in the military. I didn’t know he had a military ID number. I mean, that was before I was even born. Like, so that kind of thing. So you would just write down your military ID number. It’s like a Mad Libs. You know that where you would fill in and you make the funny story. 

  

Kathi (14:25) 

All right. 

  

Right? 

  

Hmm. Yes. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (14:37) 

So there’s like a line for all kinds of stuff that you may or may not have, but if you have it and it’s your binder, then you just fill that information out. Stuff that you wouldn’t even have on the computer or in your file cabinet is just like you knew that you were in the military, even if your grandchildren don’t know that you were. So that’s kind of like being able to fill things out. And then you can also like put post -it notes in there. Like we do have banking information, we have bank information sheets, and we just ask you where you bank, what kind of a bank account it is. 

  

Kathi (14:52) 

Right. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (15:05) 

what the password is, if you have a safety deposit box, where is it located? What’s the number? You know, I mean, you just forget about these things. You don’t need to put down your bank balances. You could even just put, like for me, I could just put down US Bank, 11 accounts, because we do, we have 11 accounts. Like once you get into US Bank, they’re going to give you everything you need. But maybe my family doesn’t know I also have Huntington Bank, and that’s where I keep some of our money for a future business we’re going to purchase, land that we’re going to purchase to build our future. 

  

Kathi (15:10) 

right, yes. 

  

Hmm? 

  

Yeah. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (15:34) 

building and so it’s not in our main bank account. You may not realize we have two banks. So here’s a great story and why I really started making this financial binder. Quite a few of the people that I organized in Cincinnati were widows. So they would call me in to help them, especially with the paper. They were very overwhelmed. They’d gotten, you know, the life insurance and that it was this detritus that was holding them up and they weren’t used to doing all the bills. And so we would go through their file of cabinets and this one woman’s husband had 

  

80 binders, 80. He had kept every single paper transaction of every single financial thing he had ever done because it was his hobby. And they were like mutual funds. They weren’t even things where you had to like know the transaction because the value, wasn’t a stock, although he did have stock also. And so she had a bank, Fifth Third, and we went to the bank and we found four bank accounts, which she knew all these bank accounts. And I’m going through her mail every single month. I’m going down there and going through and you can sort paper without looking at like what the dollar amount of values are. It’s weird trick. 

  

Kathi (16:11) 

my word. 

  

right? Yeah. 

  

Mm 

  

Lisa Woodruff (16:34) 

professional organizers can do. And I’m looking at these bank accounts, I’m like, I swear there’s a fifth bank account, you know, and I’m kind of dyslexic, so I’m not really looking at the numbers, but I’m like, I think we’re always getting five. And she’s like, do you want to go to the bank? I’m like, I do. And like the estate was almost settled, like we’re a year after. We’re there at the bank and they’re like, Mrs. Woodruff, there are only four accounts here. We’ve gone through this, like we’re ready to settle the estate. Everything’s been closed. Everything’s been transacted. I was like, I just think there’s a fifth account. 

  

And they’re like, do you want us to look for it again? I said, I do. And I’m like a people pleaser. So I’m like, wow, I’m really out on a limb here. Now I’m telling my client we’re at the bank. I’m telling the banker. Kathi, there was another $100 ,000 bank account. This man had set up an LLC and she was like, my gosh, I remember this now. He had put it aside for our dream home we were going to build someday. Cause he died of a massive heart attack, like on the way home from a, he was in his 60s, but he wasn’t really old. 

  

Kathi (17:08) 

bright. Yes. 

  

What? 

  

right. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (17:31) 

She’s like, I forgot about it. He had created an LLC. So that’s why it didn’t show up when they ran all the social security numbers and we didn’t run across and he didn’t put that LLC paperwork in any of the 80 binders that I went through. And so I have more than one story like this where you just are living your life at breakneck speed and you’re like, just like trying to keep it. I’ll do that later. I’ll do that later. I’ll do that later. And you in your head know and you remember in your head there’s a fifth bank account. 

  

Kathi (17:36) 

Yes, because it’s a totally different entity. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Right! 

  

Lisa Woodruff (18:00) 

But there’s literally no trail of it anywhere in this house. $100 ,000, Kathi, $100 ,000. 

  

Kathi (18:07) 

And who knows what would have ever, know, where that would show up if there would ever be another statement. Yes. my goodness. And here’s what I’ve come to learn is that we don’t know our parents as well as we think we do. And right? They’ve had these lives that we’ve been privy to, you know, just a section of. And so we… 

  

Lisa Woodruff (18:14) 

It never, it wouldn’t, it wasn’t going to show up ever. Yep. 

  

True. Yeah. 

  

Yes. 

  

Kathi (18:37) 

We don’t even know the questions to ask sometimes. And that’s why I like that the binder is very comprehensive because it asks questions. Yeah, like my mom and dad were never part of the military. And so it feels good that you can say, I don’t have to worry about any of that stuff. Yes, exactly. But you know, I just recently had a client, not a clutter client, a writing client who was getting rid of a bunch of 

  

Lisa Woodruff (18:52) 

Not that one. 

  

Kathi (19:06) 

books and binders and things from her mom. And she goes, you know, we settled the estate, you know, this was a decade ago. And she decided she just needed to go through this one binder just to make sure, just to make sure she wasn’t missing any little piece of information. And I can’t remember what the paperwork was, but the paperwork that was in there that they had never seen before entitled them to financial 

  

compensation that her son, so the deceased grandson, was able to put a new roof on his house. And if you’ve ever put a new roof on your house, you know how crazy expensive that is. And for my client to pay off some huge debts. it’s like, I think, wouldn’t grandma be devastated if that money had not gone to that, right? 

  

Lisa Woodruff (19:45) 

See. 

  

if you lost that. And you know, you talk about clutter and we see clutter everywhere and paper is small and tiny and overwhelming. And so we can really cram a lot of paper in a banker’s box. Like we could cram it in there and shove it in the bottom of closet and we’ll take another one and shove it somewhere else. And then we got the laundry basket over here and we’re like, I don’t really have that much paper cause it’s like all over your house. And the other thing I noticed as an in -home professional organizer, which I am not anyway. 

  

Kathi (20:05) 

Right, something that she had worked so hard for. 

  

Yes. Yes. 

  

right? 

  

Mm 

  

Lisa Woodruff (20:33) 

anymore. I do it online now. But I still do this in home and we have a certification for this is paper organizing retreats. Because when I would organize paper, I promise you, you start organizing paper 30 minutes in you’re like, where is the wine and I’m out of here. Like, it’s just too much and you don’t know what to do with it and you’re afraid you shouldn’t get rid of it. So you just stop again. But people there’s somebody that loaded their RV full of paper and drove it here from Canada. People will drive 18 hours with their paper. We have a weekend paper organizing retreat. 

  

Kathi (20:33) 

Okay. Okay. 

  

Right. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (21:02) 

And we have shredding on site because we have professional organizers here, which I know you don’t like that, but you do in this case. And they will, now 50 % of the people coming have lost a spouse or have lost a parent. And they’re just going through all of that paperwork and they just want us to say, shred, keep, shred, keep, you know, and then they’re like, okay, now I’ll go settle the estate because it’s so much work and it’s so rude. Like your life doesn’t stop when you have to settle somebody else’s estate. Like it just keeps spinning. 

  

Kathi (21:06) 

Yeah. Yeah. 

  

Right. 

  

Yes. 

  

Right? don’t get six months off of work in order to do that. And I think that we are so scared to throw away that one magical piece of paper. it’s so hard to know if this piece of paper is going to be what you need, the key to everything. so I love that the, there are a couple of things I love about the binder. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (21:30) 

No, it’s so hard. 

  

Yes. 

  

Yes. 

  

Kathi (21:54) 

One, it asks all the right questions. And two, I don’t even know how else to put this, Lisa. It’s a landing place. It’s like a safe landing place, right? And like, what I love what you said is when I get my social security statement, I can throw away the last one because I know that I have the most recent one and then the rest of it can go away. Like I know that when I pay off 

  

Lisa Woodruff (22:02) 

Yes. Hug it. Yeah. 

  

Mm -hmm. Yes. 

  

Kathi (22:24) 

my car note that I know where I am going to put it. And as somebody who lived through the Caldor fire and was out of her house, you know what? I’m very grateful. Our town lost over a thousand structures, almost 800 homes, and we lost two acres of property, but it never came to our house, but it burned on all four sides. And so 

  

Lisa Woodruff (22:26) 

Yes. 

  

I’m sorry. 

  

I’m sorry. 

  

Kathi (22:53) 

We left, we know, you know, for three weeks we were out of our house. We couldn’t get back in. And for three days we didn’t, we assumed that our house was gone. And you know, and I, we did have one binder that we picked up and took with us, but it wasn’t as comprehensive. And yes, it was like your brain after you leave the house says, where’s that? Where’s that thing? And 

  

Lisa Woodruff (22:54) 

So you know. Yeah. 

  

can’t even imagine. 

  

Kathi (23:22) 

You know, the other thing I love that what you said is about Post -it notes to be able to say, here’s where you can find the key to the box that you need. Here’s, you know, some, you know, there are some weird things that, you know, everybody’s life is weird, right? We all have that one little thing. Like my mom’s weird thing is, Kathi, don’t donate all the milk glass when I die. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (23:28) 

Stick it in there. Yes. 

  

Kathi (23:49) 

You know that stuff’s valuable. It’s like okay mom I promised her I won’t do that and I know as we go through the binder there will be a note about the milk glass because that’s really important her like question You know the things that are unique to each of us like my mom’s a quilter What do you want me to do with the quilt to have a place to put all those answers? That isn’t between your two temples is so so important Lisa. Yeah 

  

Lisa Woodruff (24:08) 

Hmm. Yes. 

  

and that will give her so much peace because she’ll know she communicated it to you and it will give you so much peace because you’ll know what you can donate and what you really, you know, can’t donate immediately. And also one thing before we go, go ahead and put your passwords in there. Like no one, I promise you, everybody’s like, I can’t put my passwords in here. Trust me, if they come into your house and they go buy the 80 inch TV and they go for your financial binder, which is unlabeled, that is an unusual burglar, no one’s coming in your house to get your passwords to whatever. 

  

Kathi (24:17) 

Yes, that’s what I want. Right. 

  

Right. Yes, please. Yes. 

  

Yes. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (24:45) 

put your passwords in there. Just put them in there. Even if you just put a post in another good, use US bank, my banker is Tony and here’s my password or whatever. And also go to the bank and just drop off the power of attorney so that they know like, you’re not gonna need it today. But when you do need it, you’ll be so grateful that you did the work ahead of time. And if you don’t do the work ahead of time because you’re pushing off, because you just wanna test your limits, just know that this resource is here. 

  

Kathi (24:46) 

Yes. 

  

Right. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (25:11) 

and it will be a lifeline. And along with that, you get the organized 365 community of people who are also doing these same binders. They’re all living the same experience you’re living, which makes you feel like you’re not going through it alone. 

  

Kathi (25:22) 

You know, I’m going to also highlight something else that you just said there. Talk to Tony. Because, you know, what we’ve told our daughter is, you know, God forbid something happens to us, our neighbor, which where we live, she’s 30 minutes away, Susie. Yeah, yeah, we live in the forest, but go talk to Susie because she knows about mountain living. She knows about 

  

Lisa Woodruff (25:29) 

Yeah. 

  

Sheesh. 

  

Kathi (25:50) 

She’s an author. I’m an author. Like she’s the key to so much information so you don’t have to figure it out on your own. And I love that you said that, you know, talk to Tony at the bank, leave a little roadmap of the people who are going to be helpful because our children will be sad when we pass and to have people there who can help take care of them, to help take care of your brothers and sisters and all of that is so critical. If you could give. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (25:57) 

Right. 

  

Kathi (26:18) 

Just one piece of advice before they get the binder like what they could do right now because I know like you said when you settle in the state you want to go clean out your storage unit, right? What they’re gonna listen to this and say I want to go do something right now and guys we’re gonna give you the link and we’ve got we’ve got a a code for you know, we’re gonna we’re gonna set you up well Because guys whether you’re buying this for yourself or for your parents This is gonna save somebody 

  

weeks worth of work. So what’s the one piece of advice you could give Lisa for somebody to do right now? 

  

Lisa Woodruff (26:50) 

so much time. 

  

Okay, super simple. I want you to go get your favorite container or basket that’s in your house. And I want you to set it aside and I want you to put a post -it note on it that says financial binder. And then as you come across anything that would go in a financial binder, I want it to go in this basket. As you think, that’s right, I wanna write this down, write down a note card, put it in the basket so that when you do get the financial binder, you already have some of your ideas, some of your papers. 

  

Kathi (27:01) 

Mm -hmm. 

  

yes. 

  

Mmm 

  

Lisa Woodruff (27:21) 

And you could keep on your decluttering journey and going through with all your friends, all the things you do with Kathi and all the different groups that you’re in. But anything financial at a minimum has to start going in this basket and start separating it out from all the other places it is so that even if you don’t have the financial binder yet, you have the beginning. 

  

Kathi (27:39) 

I love it so much. This is so great. Okay, guys, check the show notes. You’ll see how to get this. Guys, you know, I’m doing this because I’m using it. I only recommend things to you that I’m actually doing and I am doing this because, you know, we have probably three estates that are going to need to be settled in the next 20 to 30 years. And I don’t want to put that burden on somebody else. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (27:59) 

Mm 

  

Kathi (28:06) 

They’re already going to have to go through my closet. That’s enough for any human being. right. Lisa, thank you so much for being with us today. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (28:14) 

Thank you. 

  

Kathi (28:15) 

And guys, I’m gonna make sure that you have the link to Lisa’s website so you can go check out her other resources because if you’re feeling overwhelmed by any portion of your life, there’s gonna be a way to organize it on Lisa’s website. I’ve checked it out guys, you’re gonna wanna go check it out. And friends, Lisa was here, but friends, we’re so grateful you’ve been here. Thank you for listening to Clutter Free Academy, I’m Kathi Lipp. Now go live the clutter free life you were always intended to live. 

  

Lisa Woodruff (28:31) 

Thanks. 

 

 

 

#641 The 3 Words That are Keeping You Cluttered (And How to Change It)

#641 The 3 Words That are Keeping You Cluttered (And How to Change It)

641 – The 3 Words That are Keeping You Cluttered

(And How to Change It)

Hey there, friend!

In today’s episode, we’re diving deep into the power of the words we use when it comes to our clutter – not just the things we say out loud, but those whispers in our hearts that can either paralyze us or propel us forward.

In this eye-opening episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp sits down with authors Angie Hyche and Liana George to discuss the powerful impact of language on our decluttering journey. The trio explores the common phrases – or “dirty words” – that keep people stuck in cycles of clutter and shame.

Listeners will discover:

  • Why no one is “born organized” and how organization is a learned skill
  • The real meaning behind “just in case” thinking and how it relates to fear
  • The importance of starting small and celebrating progress
  • Why cleaning and organizing are “morally neutral” activities

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed, ashamed, or just plain stuck when it comes to decluttering, this episode is for you.

Join the Clutter Free Academy Facebook Group to receive your 30-Day 1K Calendar to help track your progress. Remember to answer all three questions to join the group! It’s how we keep it the nicest corner of the internet.

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup here and sign up to receive your free ebook featuring four week’s worth of easy meal plans and delicious recipes.

Click here to be notified when the next podcast episode is released!

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

 

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Can you share a personal story of how negative self-talk affected your own organizing journey?

Share in the comments!

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

  • Leave a note in the comment section below.
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Meet Our Guests

 

Liana George & Angie Hyche

Angie Hyche is an author, speaker, and professional organizer. She’s the author of Unholy Mess: What the Bible Says about Clutter, co-author of Uncluttered: Shaping Your Heart & Home for What Matters Most, and co-host of the Uncluttered podcast. She loves helping people simplify so they can prioritize what matters most.

Liana George is an author, podcaster, and speaker based in Texas. Her first three novels are based on her experiences as a professional organizer and her time in China. When she’s not organizing or writing, you’ll find her reading, traveling, watching tennis, or keeping up her small farm in Houston.

Connect with Angie Hyche and Liana George on their website https://uncluttered.faith/ and on social media https://www.facebook.com/uncluttered.faith and https://www.instagram.com/uncluttered.faith/

 

Tonya Kubo Picture
Transcript

Kathi (00:01.578)

Okay, this is, we’re talking with Angie Hyche and Liana George, and we are talking about the dirty words. So you editors are gonna be very intrigued by this. okay, five, four, three, two, one.

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. Today, we’re diving into a topic that I hope is, as much as we talk about what to do with your hands when it comes to decluttering, I’m hoping that this is going to help your head. That’s my goal for today, and that’s the goal of my two guests, because…

If you’ve ever caught yourself saying, I’ll get to that someday, or I’m just not an organized person. Okay, by the way, nobody’s actually born organized. Can we just be really honest about that? I wanna talk about language today, and so do my two guests. We wanna talk about the language, not just the language you use with the people you love in your home, but the language you use with yourself. I have two amazing guests. First,

I have Angie Hyche and we also have Liana George. Okay guys, sorry. We have Angie Hyche and Liana George. They are the co-authors of the new book, Uncluttered, Shaping Your Heart and Home for What Matters Most. And you guys, you know that’s my jam, right? And they are the co-hosts of the Uncluttered podcast. So we’ve got a bunch of people who love to talk about clutter.

or actually who love to talk about decluttering? Angie is also the author of Unholy Mess, What the Bible Says About Clutter and a professional organizer. And if you don’t think that the Bible talks about clutter, let’s just talk about how a lot of the little red bits of the New Testament are about what you own and what you love. And so I don’t know of a better definition of that than clutter. Liana?

Kathi (02:14.37)

Is a novelist whose first three books draw from her experiences as a professional organizer and her time in China my goodness. Okay. We have so much to talk about ladies. Welcome to the podcast. I’m so glad to have you here today

Angie Hyche (02:29.41)

Thank you, Kathi. We have been looking forward to this for so long. So thank you.

Liana George (02:29.636)

Thank you.

Kathi (02:34.582)

Well, and that’s because your emails kind of got buried in my inbox. That’s why it was so long, but you guys have been so gracious. Liana, I have to ask about your time in China, was that military? Was that missionary? What was that?

Liana George (02:42.214)

Thank

Liana George (02:51.164)

No, it was neither. It was my husband’s company decided to build a facility there And so they moved us there in three weeks. We had three weeks to move Yes, three weeks. We went there July 4th of 2006 and I was back by August 8th So my kids could start school. So yeah, so I really needed to be organized to get an overseas move

Kathi (02:52.941)

Okay.

Kathi (02:56.809)

Nice!

Kathi (03:01.196)

What?

Kathi (03:12.078)

my goodness. Okay. The reason I was so intrigued by that little detail was because I was a missionary in Japan for a year. And talk about a culture change. Yes. So my goodness. Okay, I definitely have to pick up that book. Okay, so I’ll get some book recommendations from you at the end.

When you guys first pitched this idea to me about what you come on and talk about, one of the subjects you gave me was the dirty words of organizing. I’m like, okay, that’s scandalous enough that I am dying to find out what you’re talking about. So Liana, here’s my question. What do you mean by the dirty words of organizing?

Liana George (04:35.214)

Yeah, it’s it’s it is. It’s enough to grab your attention and that’s the whole point. We want to grab your attention because so many times, like you said earlier, you know, it’s the work of our hands that we do when we get organized, but we don’t understand the power that our language has on our efforts to get organized. And so many times we use phrases or words that can severely hamper whatever we’re trying to do. And it’s words like some day later.

Kathi (04:40.302)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (04:51.351)

Mmm.

Liana George (05:05.156)

just in case, I don’t know, or I can’t, right? And so they’re dirty in that, just like the dirty words that we grow up learning not to say, they are, they’re scandalous, right? And they hamper and they hurt us. They don’t, not only, got, when I was working with clients, I’d heard them so much, I was like, you’re hurting my ears, please stop saying that.

Kathi (05:31.48)

Mmm.

Liana George (05:32.552)

So that was, I was like, you know, trying to reframe the way they spoke because we, as we know, the words have power. And so when we use these words, we can either help our efforts or hurt our efforts.

Kathi (05:40.462)

Yeah.

Kathi (05:46.84)

So this is really interesting to me because I’ve got people in my life, some people who, you know, they just naturally tend towards clutter or, you know, maybe they even have hoarding tendencies. And I feel like so often the dirty words aren’t aimed at the stuff, they’re aimed at ourselves. And I wonder…

Angie Hyche (06:08.332)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (06:11.958)

Okay, so let’s talk about when it’s me, when I’m the one who’s saying, I can’t, I’ll do it later. I don’t have, you know, I don’t have the time right now. I don’t have the energy right now, which could all be true. I, you know, I have been at times in my life where decluttering was the last thing on my list. You know, we were in survival mode, but we, we have to, we have to set our own sea level of what, you know, survival is.

So how do these words affect ourselves, Angie? And then how can we start to, well, let me ask you this Angie, what are the words that you bristle at? know, Liana told us hers, but I would love to hear the ones that you bristle at. And how do you start to change that conversation?

Angie Hyche (07:05.304)

I think the ones, the specific ones that I tend to hear the most and that bother me the most is the just in case. I need to keep this just in case because I might need it. And, you know, there are, there’s, there’s such extremes with that, you know, to say, well, I better take my umbrella just in case it rains. Well, that’s pretty legit, you know, it might, but some of our just in cases are so outlandish.

Kathi (07:13.486)

Mmm.

Kathi (07:17.484)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:22.168)

Mm

Kathi (07:29.152)

Right.

Kathi (07:34.988)

Mm -hmm.

Angie Hyche (07:35.446)

You know, to say, I’m going to keep six months of supplies just in case of a zombie apocalypse is completely different. So, so many times with each of these, we talk about, here’s what we’re saying. Here’s what we’re really saying though. And so with the just in case what we’re, think many, many times what we’re saying down deep is

Kathi (07:53.792)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Angie Hyche (08:04.63)

I’m afraid. I’m afraid that if I let this go, I’m not going to have the opportunity to have it again. And ultimately, at its deepest level, it’s, God’s not going to take care of me. He does not have my back. And that’s pretty deep.

Kathi (08:06.304)

It, you know, yeah.

Kathi (08:21.294)

Yeah, long-time listeners of this podcast will know that I talk about the fear, guilt, and shame of clutter, fear, what if I need it someday, guilt, but so and so gave it to me and shame, I spent so much money on it. And like, those are the three reasons that we keep things are fear, guilt, and shame. And what you’re talking about here is a deep fear. You know, if we had

Angie Hyche (08:29.492)

Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Mm-hmm. yes.

Angie Hyche (08:41.677)

Mm

Angie Hyche (08:46.249)

Mm

Kathi (08:47.286)

grandparents who went through the depression, the thought, you know, and that’s been passed down to their kids and sometimes us, you know, you can’t throw anything away because what you’re saying is I don’t value anything and yet we just live in a land and a time of abundance. It’s not so much so I mean, there are people who let’s be clear, they don’t have enough food, they don’t have enough resources.

Angie Hyche (09:03.22)

Mm

Angie Hyche (09:08.46)

Yes.

Kathi (09:15.554)

But for those of us who are listening to a clutter podcast, that’s probably not the situation as much as it is. I don’t know what I have. So I have to buy more. so how do you start to, you know what, we’re going to take a quick break, but then I’m going to come back to you, Liana, and ask, how do we start to, I always call it, you know, I like to call it, how do we gently parent ourselves?

Angie Hyche (09:22.892)

Yes.

Angie Hyche (09:26.924)

Mm

Kathi (09:44.952)

to not be so hard on ourselves, but to say, there a different way of thinking? So I’m gonna come back and ask you that question when we’re done with our commercial. We’ll be right back.

Angie Hyche (09:45.029)

Mm.

Kathi (09:57.728)

Okay friends, we’re back and I just put Liana on the spot, because that’s what we do on a podcast about how do we start talking to ourselves in a different way? We wouldn’t tell our kids, don’t be afraid, just suck it up. But that’s how we talk to ourselves so much of the time, isn’t it? Like what you’re feeling is stupid, stop it. And we would never talk to a child or a dear friend that way, but we can be so hard on ourselves. So how do we start to…

Liana George (10:14.203)

it in.

Kathi (10:24.734)

unpack this fear that’s making us hang on to things that we don’t really need and start to have a new conversation.

Liana George (10:33.242)

Yeah, so one of the things that we encourage in the book, because this is one of our devotionals, you know, talking about these words. And so one of the things that we encourage people to do for the practical part of this, and like you said, to start talking to ourselves, is to write down what are the words that I do say? What are the words that I hear myself saying when I’m organizing or decluttering? And, you know, write those down and then write down

what do you think you’re really saying? Like Angie said a minute ago, what are we deep down really trying to saying to ourselves? And then write down, how can I reframe that question differently? And just by I think going through that, taking the time to go through those little steps, I think can help us really understand, wait, you know, this is, this isn’t what I meant, because, but because I’m acting out of this, either it’s

fear, confusion, misunderstanding, doubt, you know. And then once you can identify those, I think it’s easier for you to process that information and then start speaking differently.

Kathi (11:46.574)

So I’m going to give you some common phrases that I hear when it comes. This is like $60 ,000 pyramid. I’m going to give you the common phrase, and I need the response. OK, and I’m going to go back and forth with you guys. So Angie, we’re going to start with you. I just don’t know where to put it.

Angie Hyche (11:51.234)

Okay.

Angie Hyche (12:01.59)

Yes. All right.

Angie Hyche (12:07.0)

yeah. this is similar to, well, I’ll just put it here for now. this is, this is so common. And I think usually what we mean when we say that is, well, I don’t really want to deal with this.

Kathi (12:15.018)

Right, yeah.

Kathi (12:31.926)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Angie Hyche (12:33.354)

And our excuse is, well, I don’t know where to put it. I don’t want to deal with this. And so then what ends up happening is that item becomes clutter because we put it on the kitchen counter or on the floor or whatever. it’s, it’s, it’s basically, it’s just kind of an excuse to procrastinate. so I think, when we do that, you know, I’ll do it later. I’ll do this just for now. Then many times the later never really comes around.

Kathi (12:49.837)

Yeah.

Angie Hyche (13:03.256)

And whereas if we take the time to do it correctly, then that clutter is not going to build up. know, our book is a devotional book and scripture and one of the scriptures that’s good for this one is Proverbs 13 for lazy people, what much, but get little, but those who work hard will prosper. Now, is it laziness in every situation? No, no, not necessarily, but sometimes it is like, just don’t want to deal with it.

Kathi (13:26.498)

No. Yeah.

Angie Hyche (13:32.994)

So it comes back to that principle that organizers are notorious for saying because it’s so important, having a home for everything. And if you have a home for everything, that pickup is just a breeze. Okay, here’s this. I know where that goes up. I’ll go ahead and… But it’s those items that we haven’t yet established the home for that end up becoming clutter because we haven’t gone through the thinking to try to establish that home.

Kathi (13:40.81)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (14:00.314)

Yeah, I think very few people are actually lazy. I think that they are just so overwhelmed and it’s more of a mental exhaustion than it is a physical. You know, there are times when I’m like, yeah, I’m done for the day because I’ve been working hard all day and it’s like it is time for a little Netflix and you know, whatever I made for dinner. Yes, please. But I think so much of the time, you know, I look at these people who

Angie Hyche (14:05.418)

Mm -hmm. Yes.

Yes.

Angie Hyche (14:23.276)

absolutely.

Kathi (14:29.272)

who struggle with clutter and they’re not lazy. They’re loving their neighbors. They’re cooking for other families. They are working hard at work and when they get home, they cannot make one more decision. Liana, what do you do for the person who is like, I’m just overwhelmed? And by the way, I wrote a book called Overwhelmed and I think overwhelmed is a terrible term because

Angie Hyche (14:37.025)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:57.41)

We can’t get to the heart of what it is, but when somebody’s overwhelmed, how do you determine what is it that’s at the heart of that indecision?

Liana George (15:07.728)

Yeah, I mean, like you said, I agree completely. Decision fatigue is a real thing. It is. And whether you have been busy all day working and you have to come home and you’re like, cannot make one more decision, or you’ve just been decluttering and you’re like, I do not know what to do or how to make any more decisions about my stuff. It’s a real thing. And we can become overwhelmed. We can become frustrated. And I think what we have to do is just when we get to that

We really just need to stop and we need to tell ourselves we’ve done enough for today and it’s okay. We can start again tomorrow. Or, you know, maybe we try not to conquer everything and we try to go for smaller portions so that it’s not so overwhelming and daunting. So I think we need to start small and I think we need to start small in places that are the most impactful.

So I think if you start small, it’s, I always tell people what small space can we change today that will make a difference in your life tomorrow? And sometimes that could be, maybe it’s the kitchen. I can’t get my family’s food on the table because the dining room’s too cluttered. Or maybe it’s just your bathroom sink where you get things ready in the morning with your hair and makeup.

So it’s just maybe starting something small. And I think just making those small little tweaks or decisions can make a big difference.

Kathi (16:39.33)

You know, I was just gonna ask Angie, but I feel like you just answered it. can talk more about this. But I think so often, part of the reason of our frustration is our expectations are out of line with our reality. That kitchen table took three weeks to get to that state. And we expect it to be cleaned up.

Angie Hyche (16:54.626)

Mm -hmm.

Angie Hyche (17:02.338)

Yeah.

Kathi (17:05.486)

in 10 minutes and we get frustrated with ourselves that we can’t do it in 10 minutes. It’s that all-or-nothing thinking. So Angie, how do we combat all-or-nothing thinking with being gentle with ourselves without beating ourselves up?

Angie Hyche (17:21.836)

Yeah. So I think I love how you came back to, know, most of the time it’s not laziness and I agree. and, but it’s also true that like the more frequently we do these little, I’m a big fan of daily pickup, like five minutes daily pickup. So if we’re doing that, even if it’s not every day, even if it’s three or four days a week, we’re spending five minutes.

Kathi (17:41.38)

Yeah, yeah.

Angie Hyche (17:51.376)

the amount of clutter will be so much less when we do get around to, to working on it. and I think that the key thing about these dirty words, whatever we do, they just leave us so paralyzed. And, and if we start saying, you, can’t believe you, you’ve let this go so long and, and, you’re the worst.

That’s just gonna leave us exactly in our tracks. Whereas if we say, okay, this is definitely not the state that I want it to be. I’ve let things go a little too long, but it’s okay. God loves me no matter what, no matter what kind of mess I’m in. So what can I do right now? What time do I have? How can I spend the next… How long do I… Let’s say I have five, 10 minutes. Okay.

Kathi (18:29.984)

Bye.

Angie Hyche (18:49.24)

If my goal is to get my family dinner on the table, can I spend five or 10 minutes clearing this space and then say, okay, so for the, for right now, I had to set these things over here just for now because we needed to eat dinner. So tomorrow during that time, I’m going to work on the things that I had to set aside and just, just forgive yourself for no one can keep up with that all the time. I mean, we look at these things on Pinterest or in a

Kathi (19:02.693)

Yeah.

Angie Hyche (19:18.228)

home magazines or look at that my home should look like that nobody’s home looks like that unless they’re just getting ready to have somebody over really influential you know it’s okay yes exactly

Kathi (19:22.735)

Nobody does, yeah.

Kathi (19:27.936)

Or they’re selling their house. Yeah. Yeah. So let me ask this question as we’re wrapping up here. You know, I’ve got people in my, well, I’ve got a lot of people in my life, because we run a big group, Clutterfree Academy. And, you know, people are so hard on themselves. But I also have people in my life who, you know,

Liana George (19:29.914)

Yeah.

Angie Hyche (19:50.7)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (19:55.971)

well, of course my house is a mess, it’s always a mess, or they’re just so hard on themselves. And I try to come back with, it’s okay, you’re a wonderful person, let me help you, let’s figure this out together. And by the way, I’m sure people tell you this all the time, I could never have you guys, have you over to my house.

And I’m like, no, I’m the person you can absolutely have to your house because I’ve had to dig out of it. totally get it. So Liana, what do we tell to the person that we love that is, that is just, they, the dirty words are about them, that I’m a mess. I can’t take care of it. you know, my house is always a mess. There’s something.

intrinsically wrong with me. How do we speak life to that person that we love and we know that they’re a good person, but they do struggle with clutter?

Liana George (21:00.168)

And that’s really, I think, really, really important and that we do that. And I just want to say to your point of, you know, people saying, I can’t have you over. I always tell them I’m a judgment-free zone, right? Because like you said, there are times when my house is a mess and we all have it. But for those who are struggling with their identity in this organization, you know, one perfection is not a real thing.

Kathi (21:11.704)

Yeah, yeah.

Kathi (21:17.196)

Mm

Liana George (21:27.696)

You know, we need to let that go. But two, being organized is a learned skill. It’s like you said earlier, you know, nobody is born that way. is some that granted. I believe that there are some people who have a more natural tendency for it than others. But it is definitely a learned skill that anybody can learn to do. And so, you know, don’t be so hard on yourself because the other thing you have to remember is you’ve got your own organizing style.

Kathi (21:55.479)

Yes.

Liana George (21:56.378)

I think so many times people compare what they see on TV or in magazines and they think that they have to do it just like that. And when they do it just like that and they try it for a few weeks and it doesn’t work, then they are like, I’m a failure. See, I can never be organized. And that’s only because they just haven’t found the system or the style that works for them. And so I would tell them, be gentle with yourself and figure out what works for you.

Kathi (22:13.56)

Yeah.

Kathi (22:24.962)

Mm -hmm.

Liana George (22:25.626)

try something and if it doesn’t, you if you see that this isn’t working doing it this way or having them, you know, with lids or in covered bins, then you know what? Next time try using bins with no lids and clear bins, right? So you can maybe see what is different. And I mean, it took me, okay, I’m a professional organizer. It took me years to figure out my own children. They’re organizing style, right? And once I did, was like a light bulb went off.

Kathi (22:39.95)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (22:51.522)

right? Yes. Yes.

Liana George (22:54.382)

And we could have peace in our house because I didn’t expect them to organize like me and I could see what their strengths were and they’re organizing and it made a world of difference. But it took us a long time to figure it out.

Kathi (23:05.782)

You know, it’s so funny. I just had a couple of people over at my house and they were cooking in my kitchen and they’re like, your kitchen is so organized. I can’t, you know, I, could never get mine this organized. I’m like, guys, it’s not that I’m more organized than you. I’ve been willing to rip out more systems than you have. And when I say systems, it’s not like I went and bought a system. It’s like, okay, well, these containers kind of fit here and I could put the lids over here.

Angie Hyche (23:25.471)

That’s good.

Kathi (23:34.614)

and let’s see if that works. And it didn’t work eight times, but the ninth time it did work. And it’s like, okay, if Rubbermaid ever stops manufacturing that size container, I have to start all over again. And you know, like if you move your house, if you move to a new house, you have to start all over again. But what you’ve learned is you’ve learned more about yourself as a person.

Angie Hyche (23:40.352)

Mm -hmm.

Liana George (23:50.897)

Yes.

Kathi (24:01.686)

Like what am I willing to put away and what am I not willing to put away? And I’ve just had to learn that I’m from a mixed marriage where I love putting away my Tupperware Rubbermaid kind of stuff because it finally works. And my husband would rather poke his eyes out than put that stuff away. And I’m like, you know what, for the sake of our marriage, just put it on the counter. I got you, babe. And so, you know, knowing that is good, right? And it’s good and it’s deep. Okay, you guys, this is a devotional.

Angie Hyche (24:02.434)

Mm -hmm.

Angie Hyche (24:23.405)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (24:30.838)

It’s called Uncluttered, shaping your heart and home for what matters most. And guys, as we talk about all the time in Clutter-Free Academy, Clutter-Free for Life, and here on this podcast, the physical clutter is just one aspect of it. But instead of being overwhelmed, start searching for freedom. Start asking yourself questions, because here’s the thing, your organizational system does not define you, but how you approach your stuff.

Angie Hyche (24:45.933)

Thank you.

Kathi (24:59.522)

how you bring God into it and how you work towards peace really does matter. And this is an excellent guide and I’m going to, we’re gonna put the link in the notes so that you guys can go check it out at all of your favorite retailers, Amazon, all those favorite places. We will make sure that you get those links. Angie and Liana, thank you so much for being here today.

Liana George (25:24.408)

Thank you so much for having me.

Angie Hyche (25:24.62)

You are welcome. It’s been a joy. You know, when you were talking about so many times, that whole guilt and shame thing is so strong. I think so many times people will say, I’m not a good wife. I’m not a good mother. Because you look at my house, I’m not, you know, and it’s just, it can be such a stronghold emotionally. I came across someone’s work that I really liked, Casey Davis, her website is Struggle Care.

Kathi (25:32.866)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (25:47.202)

Yeah.

Kathi (25:52.943)

I love Casey. Yes. Yes.

Angie Hyche (25:54.646)

Yeah, but her statement, and I love to say every once in while, cleaning and organizing are morally neutral. That has nothing to do with who you are as a person. You are just as much a loved child of God if your house looks like insanity as you are if, you know, and honestly, like there have been times in my life when I’ve been too concerned with order and not enough concerned with like pouring love into my family. So

Kathi (26:01.356)

They are right.

Angie Hyche (26:24.0)

You can’t, know, it’s difficult to get that exactly right. And so much of it is trial and error. I tried this, this works, this doesn’t work. And it’s constant adjustment. We’re all works in progress.

Kathi (26:35.766)

Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, we never learned anything from perfect people. I only learned from people who are like, you know, like Casey Davis, who I’ve got one of those gripper things because of her for, you know, about two days a month. I, I call them my down days where I just don’t have a lot of energy. I don’t have a lot of strength, but I still want to get things done. And being able to have that little grabber tool.

Angie Hyche (26:42.804)

Mm.

Angie Hyche (26:51.138)

Hmm.

Kathi (27:05.454)

She does things that I don’t need to do because I don’t have a chronic illness, but she has like her laundry basket on wheels and she can scooch around in a chair. Like you do what you have to do. You ask for the help that you need. You bring in the resources that you can. And it doesn’t matter if your mom didn’t do it that way, your best friend didn’t do it that way, or the professional organizer didn’t do it that way. Whatever keeps your nose above water.

Angie Hyche (27:19.424)

Yes.

Kathi (27:34.828)

That’s the right thing to do. And I love that there is that grace in this book. Guys, thanks so much for being here today.

Angie Hyche (27:35.2)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Angie Hyche (27:40.374)

Mm

Liana George (27:42.192)

Thank you.

Angie Hyche (27:42.838)

Thank you, Kathi.

Kathi (27:43.786)

Well, and friends, thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to Clutter -Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter-free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#640 30 Days to Freedom: Join Our Annual 1000-Item Declutter Challenge!

#640 30 Days to Freedom: Join Our Annual 1000-Item Declutter Challenge!

640 – 30 Days to Freedom: Join Our Annual 1000-Item Declutter Challenge!

Are you ready to create some breathing room before the holiday chaos begins?

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo discuss their annual 30-Day 1K Challenge, where participants declutter 1,000 items during November. They explain why this challenge is perfectly timed before the holiday season and how it’s achievable for everyone, regardless of their current clutter situation. Kathi and Tonya emphasize that perfect systems aren’t necessary for progress, encouraging listeners to take “imperfect action” rather than waiting for the perfect plan.

Listeners will discover:

  • Why starting small is crucial for success
  • How to gamify decluttering to get the whole family involved
  • Tips for handling sentimental items and adult children’s belongings
  • The importance of community support during decluttering

Whether you’re a busy mom trying to reclaim your kitchen table, an empty-nester ready to part with decades of “someday” items, or just someone tired of feeling overwhelmed by stuff, this challenge is for you.

Join the Clutter Free Academy Facebook Group to receive your 30-Day 1K Calendar to help track your progress. Remember to answer all three questions to join the group! It’s how we keep it the nicest corner of the internet.

In this episode, Tonya mentioned the time she rented a dumpster. Listen to the original Episode 434: Do I Need a Dumpster?

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup here and sign up to receive your free ebook featuring four week’s worth of easy meal plans and delicious recipes.

Click here to be notified when the next podcast episode is released!

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

 

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

Order Sabbath Soup here  and sign up to receive your free ebook featuring four week’s worth of easy meal plans and delicious recipes.

Episode 434: Do I Need a Dumpster?

Clutter Free Resources:

What inspired you to start the 30-Day 1K Challenge? 

Share in the comments!

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To share your thoughts:

  • Leave a note in the comment section below.
  • Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

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Meet Our Guest 

 

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

 

Tonya Kubo Picture
Transcript

Kathi (00:01.72)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps every day to live with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my co-host Tonya Kubo, leader of all things clutter-free. Hey Tonya. Tonya, it’s our favorite time of the year.

 

Tonya Kubo (00:25.117)

Hey, Kathi!

 

Tonya Kubo (00:29.445)

It is our favorite time of the year. I was just about to say that.

 

Kathi (00:33.399)

Because we’re weirdo wackos. Yes, but 30-day 1k. What do those words mean to you, Tonya?

 

Tonya Kubo (00:36.969)

We are the Wackos.

 

Tonya Kubo (00:45.727)

That means in 30 days, we are going to eliminate a thousand pieces of clutter from our homes.

 

Kathi (00:53.152)

Now, Tonya, you’ve been doing this for years. Obviously, you have no clutter left.

 

Tonya Kubo (00:58.079)

Yeah, because we just live in a museum over here. You know us. Right? mean, the whole principle, if somebody is just joining us, right? If you are a veteran listener, you’re laughing with us. But if you’re just joining us, the clutter is never one and done. And I think that is the number one challenge for most cluttery peeps when they are new on their journey, is we really think if we declutter the right way, if we just do it right this time,

 

Kathi (01:04.29)

You

 

Kathi (01:12.728)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (01:28.179)

we’re never gonna have clutter again. And that is not how it works if you live with other humans or if you’re going through various stages of life. Like, I don’t know about you, Kathi, but every stage of life I’ve been in brings a different type of clutter into my life.

 

Kathi (01:43.852)

Well, okay, Tonya, so let me just get, we’re gonna dive into this, but let me just tell you what’s happening over here at the Lipp Household, right? So we’re launching a book and we have a retreat net, you know, in like a week and a half. And the book I happen to be launching is about cooking, right? So every appliance in the Lipp Household has decided to die at the same time.

 

Tonya Kubo (01:47.87)

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (01:58.952)

Mm -hmm

 

Tonya Kubo (02:03.176)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (02:09.499)

yes, yes.

 

Kathi (02:11.144)

And we’ve decided to have a major electrical problem here in our garage, sure. And the people who installed our heating and cooling system, who I won’t say it here on, but if you are installing a heating and cooling system and the people you’re looking at start with a B, contact me first. Let me talk you out of that. But they have to come. So all of that.

 

Tonya Kubo (02:18.205)

Mm -hmm. Sure, why not?

 

Tonya Kubo (02:33.801)

Yeah

 

Kathi (02:40.344)

contributes to clutter. Plus, let’s just be honest, because I’m not cooking as much, we’re eating out a little bit more. And well, we’re eating in a little bit more. that causes it. just like life circumstances cause more clutter. so you just I, I have spent 50 of my 57 years thinking, well, next year, it’ll calm down. Next year.

 

Tonya Kubo (02:55.411)

Mm -hmm. Yup.

 

Tonya Kubo (03:08.732)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (03:10.164)

you know, when the kids leave the house, it’ll calm down when, and yes, it calms down, but then other things ramp up and all of that contributes to clutter. So explain to us, Tonya, the concept of why, you know, that’s ridiculous. You should just be decluttering all the time. Why are you trying to declutter all that in one month?

 

Tonya Kubo (03:15.817)

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (03:30.986)

Okay, so first of all, if you see yourself in any of those pictures, we’re probably not the podcast for you. But so from a very practical point, we do the 30 day 1K in the month of November, because we know regardless of how solid your systems are, a lot of stuff comes into your house in the month of December. And so it’s nice.

 

Kathi (03:37.4)

Probably not.

 

Kathi (03:55.468)

Yeah, it’s so true.

 

Tonya Kubo (03:57.983)

to not pile more on top of more and to actually reduce the amount of stuff that is in your home prior to this flood of things. Now I have younger children, I’ve been saying I have small children for so long, they’re not really that small anymore, they’re 10 and almost 15. So they come with a whole bunch of stuff, especially in the month of December. So the first reason is just to minimize what’s in your house before you get an influx of things. But the second is,

 

I think most of us, regardless of how we feel about our homes, spend 10 months of the year so in the thick of it we don’t really pay attention to what’s around us. And then November hits and we start thinking about Thanksgiving and we think about Christmas and you know, if you’re the kind of person who decorates you think about where you’re to put the tree. If you entertain you’re thinking about where you’re going to put all the people. If you don’t entertain sometimes you have fantasies about wouldn’t it be nice if we could entertain.

 

Kathi (04:55.64)

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (04:57.215)

and you start to get really down on yourself. And so the 30-day 1K is a great opportunity to say, you know what, let’s take some massive action. Let’s get into motion so that we feel better about our surroundings on the end of the month than we do right now.

 

Kathi (05:15.288)

Yeah, and I’m going to add one thing that I’ve never really thought about before when it comes to November and December. We’re just spending a heck of a lot more time in our houses. And, you know, things that you can ignore when, know, nine to five, who works nine to five? Come on, nine to six, nine to seven, you know, like eight, you know, six, 30. Right. Exactly. That was yesterday, except it was seven to eight.

 

Tonya Kubo (05:26.494)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (05:34.975)

Hahaha

 

Tonya Kubo (05:39.155)

Seven to seven.

 

Kathi (05:44.536)

And we’re just spending so much more time in our houses. And like you said, we’re having more people into our houses. It’s time to really think about how those walls are kind of closing in on you and to create a little elbow room. So guys, this year, we are starting Friday, November 1st, 2024. And so that is our launch day.

 

Tonya Kubo (05:59.155)

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (06:06.163)

Mm

 

Kathi (06:08.77)

But everybody likes to have a little ramping up, which we will do the few days before, you know, that Halloween week, we will be ramping up. To be a part of it, you need to go, and we’ll put the link down here, to Kathi Lipp’s Clutterfree Academy on Facebook and ask to join. And the most important part of asking to join is answering all the questions. Because if you don’t, we don’t let you in. It’s not that we’re being mean, it’s we’re trying to be really, really kind.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:13.289)

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:29.885)

Yes, please.

 

Kathi (06:37.944)

to the 15 ,000 people who have already answered the questions. And we want to make sure that we don’t have raggedy people in there. Okay, so Tonya, here’s my first question. Is it really possible to get rid of a thousand things in a month?

 

Tonya Kubo (06:38.879)

Mm -hmm.

 

Yes.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:46.057)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:54.911)

Yes, in fact, every, I have so many 30-day one case stories I can share from our community. So just let me know if you want another story. But so every year somebody says, well, I’ve been at this for three years now. I don’t have a thousand things. Or you know what? We did so much at the beginning of the year. I don’t have a thousand things. And then at the, usually around the 20th, they’re like, my gosh, I’ve already hit a thousand things. So part of it is we,

 

Kathi (07:03.103)

Yes.

 

Kathi (07:10.04)

Mm

 

Kathi (07:19.084)

Yeah, it’s crazy.

 

Tonya Kubo (07:22.801)

Everybody defines clutter differently. And I remember the first year we did this, I had posted a picture. We had done a dumpster, which we have prior episodes about that. We can link them. But I had gotten a dumpster to get rid of a bunch of things. And there was one person in Clutter Free Academy who was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I thought this was about decluttering. Trash isn’t clutter. Clutter is only things that are usable. And I was just like, well, maybe in your house, but in my house, I am overwhelmed by trash. So I have a big dumpster.

 

That’s what I’m using, right? So part of it is how you define clutter. So for us, it is stuff that you do not love, do not use, would not, could not buy again. It’s very simple. If it falls under those three things, then it can be clutter. And I don’t care personally, and Kathi, I know you don’t care how you get rid of it, but here’s the deal. It has to leave the house. You can sell it. You can donate it. You can stick it on your curb or

 

Kathi (07:52.354)

Yeah.

 

Kathi (08:02.424)

Mm

 

Kathi (08:07.416)

Mm

 

Kathi (08:14.785)

Right.

 

Tonya Kubo (08:19.965)

You can throw it in a trash can or a dumpster, but it must exit completely to count. And now Kathi, yes, I want you to kind of share your perspective because what I have found in Clutterfree Academy is I am everybody’s friend in Clutterfree Academy, right? I’m their buddy. I am in the thick of it with you, with them, and you are the boss and nobody wants to take off the boss.

 

Kathi (08:25.929)

It’s so true. Yes.

 

Tonya Kubo (08:48.639)

So I need you to tell us what your non -negotiables are for the 30 day 1K.

 

Kathi (08:48.78)

Okay.

 

Kathi (08:53.688)

Yeah, so first of all, I want you to know it’s very, very doable because it’s only 33 items a day and all of us can do that. Okay, this is how I count things.

 

Tonya Kubo (09:02.825)

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (09:07.769)

I was like, that’s what they’re afraid of. They do not want to upset Kathi Lipp by counting something that doesn’t really count.

 

Kathi (09:13.634)

Guys, it’s your house. The only thing I care about is that you live in peace. So this is how I count things. If you want to count a thousand piece puzzle as your thousand things, feel free, but that’s not going to get you towards peace. It’s just not. So I always think of it like this. If there’s a paperclip on my desk and I pitch it, that counts as a thing. If…

 

Tonya Kubo (09:18.068)

True.

 

Tonya Kubo (09:40.991)

Mm

 

Kathi (09:43.032)

If there’s a box of a hundred paper clips on my desk that counts as one thing every Decision counts as a thing so if you’re gonna get rid of a thousand things it’s a thousand decisions and That’s why this is so hard because it’s so hard making these decisions So if you’re making a decision, that’s a thing and it counts if you want to count the thousand piece puzzle

 

Tonya Kubo (10:06.036)

Bye.

 

Kathi (10:13.176)

pop off, but here’s the thing. I do not believe that that is going to get you to the place you want to be in your house. So if I was going to have one rule, every decision is a thing.

 

Tonya Kubo (10:25.991)

Yes. So I was going say, so that’s the big non -negotiable one, right? Because people will, we’ve had members in the past, it hasn’t happened in recent memory, I mean, we’ve had people paralyzed by the indecision of whether a pair of shoes counts as one item or two. And go ahead.

 

Kathi (10:38.626)

Yeah.

 

Kathi (10:43.594)

And so under that, I would say it’s one decision, because you’re not going to get rid of one shoe and not the other. It’s one decision. Yes.

 

Tonya Kubo (10:51.535)

Right. Yes, exactly. And so that’s, you know, I think that’s important. And the other thing, and you said this the very first year that Clutterfree Academy was open, so I don’t expect you to remember it. But, you you said like, well, you have, when it comes down to it, you have to decide what’s more important to you. Checking a box toward a thousand things or free, actually making an impact in your home. So back to the thousand piece puzzle.

 

Kathi (11:16.621)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:19.983)

If it’s that important to you to check off a thousand items on a thousand checkboxes by all means, but how much of an impact is throwing away one thousand-piece puzzle going to make in the landscape of your home?

 

Kathi (11:31.972)

It’s so true. Okay, so Tonya, I have a question for you. lot of people want to do this and they’re like, one, nobody will help me or two, I can’t get rid of other people’s stuff. So can you talk a little bit about that? Because Roger is on board. Like he’s sold out. We’re doing it. But you have kids. You have a husband.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:35.539)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:45.16)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:49.278)

Right.

 

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:56.445)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (11:59.213)

And your husband was quite the collector when you got married. Okay.

 

Tonya Kubo (12:02.911)

he still is. I mean, the collection is dramatically diminished, but he still is a collector type. He likes to collect things. I think I have like, yeah, I think he has like 700 bottle caps on his desk right now. They’re yeah, like he has that thing. Like, I don’t know why I don’t get it. But you know, they’re in a vase. It’s his desk. He gets to do what he wants with his desk, which is it’s rule number one, right? I do not mess with other people’s stuff.

 

Kathi (12:11.02)

Yeah. So how do you deal with that?

 

Kathi (12:18.434)

Does he really?

 

Okay, yeah.

 

I bet it’s really cute.

 

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (12:31.871)

I focus on my own clutter and I let everybody else focus on theirs. How I have gotten my family enrolled from almost day one is I gamify the 30-day 1K. It is a family-wide contest. I print out our tracking sheet for the thousand items. There’s four people in my family, so this is actually very easy for us. It may not be easy for you, but I have four different colors of highlighters. Everybody gets a highlighter. If you have more people in your family, use markers.

 

Kathi (12:32.14)

Mm -hmm. Bye.

 

Tonya Kubo (13:01.651)

but everybody gets to mark off a box in their color when they declutter something. And at the end of the month, whoever has colored the most boxes, so whoever has gotten rid of the most stuff, gets to pick our reward. So we have done it in the past. We’ve done a whole movie day. And so, you know, that person got to pick the movie and then everybody gets to bring their favorite snack. So nobody’s punished for not decluttering the most.

 

Kathi (13:21.74)

Cool.

 

Kathi (13:28.354)

Great.

 

Tonya Kubo (13:30.491)

So we’ve done a movie day, we’ve done dinner out. I remember the first year I taught the girls how to make charcuterie and they all got to pick out a fancy cheese, which you know that was actually a very pricey endeavor. It’s cheaper to take those kids out to the movies. But I gamify it. I think one of the things that I would like to free all of our listeners from is decluttering does not have to be penance. It doesn’t have to be a punishment. You can incorporate joy into this.

 

Kathi (13:40.152)

Right.

 

Tonya Kubo (13:59.401)

whole experience. And so I want my children to have positive associations with decluttering. I don’t want them to be like, yeah, every time we decluttered, my mom made us eat baloney sandwiches and wouldn’t let us leave the house until the whole place was clean. I don’t want those kind of memories. So we make a game of it.

 

Kathi (14:15.757)

Right.

 

I love it so much. Okay, so we have the people who are like can I even find a thousand pieces of clutter in my house and the other people on the other end of the spectrum Dude a thousand pieces of clutter won’t even make a dent in my house so let’s talk about Those friends who are like I it’s not even gonna make a difference So my first thing would be to say you have to start somewhere

 

Tonya Kubo (14:23.519)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (14:32.799)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (14:46.814)

Mm

 

Kathi (14:46.89)

and a thousand pieces of clutter, especially in some of the in those circumstances, I would ask you to concentrate on surface clutter. I think for many of us, when we, you know, we’re like, okay, we’re gonna declutter a thousand things. And so we go into grandma’s China, like that’s the first thing we do. And it’s like, okay, that’s not gonna make as much of an impact as all the mail on top of your microwave. So.

 

Tonya Kubo (15:06.356)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (15:16.244)

If you want to, and then I would also say if you have a lot of clutter, stick to one room for a while until it feels different, then move on to another place. What would you say to that person who says a thousand pieces are not gonna make a dent?

 

Tonya Kubo (15:26.495)

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (15:31.433)

So what I actually hear in that question, Kathi, is if my house isn’t going to be company-ready, Pinterest perfect, there’s no point in starting. And my response to that is, but if you ever want your home to look like your fantasy home, your dream home, you have to start somewhere, and why not start now? I agree with you. I do advocate for starting in one room.

 

Kathi (15:42.775)

right.

 

Kathi (15:55.362)

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (15:59.935)

A lot of times the daily challenges that we do for the 30-day 1K will hit various rooms of the house, right? Because what we’re our goal is to jog your memory to get you to think like, what can I get rid of in my kitchen? What can I get rid of in the spare room? But if you focus on one room, then you’re going to be able at the end of the month to go, wow, I’ve accomplished something. If you’re flitting throughout the house, you know.

 

Kathi (16:05.09)

Sure, yes.

 

Kathi (16:09.878)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

 

Kathi (16:21.368)

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (16:26.227)

Like Kathi’s point, I mean, you may have clear counters and a clear microwave in the kitchen. You may have clear coffee table in the living room, but you also just may not feel as accomplished as if you focused all your energy in one space.

 

Kathi (16:39.786)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I think People you know, we we talk about the concept of spending all your time saddling up like I’m gonna I’m gonna find the perfect system. I am going to color code I’m going to have different baskets for different things I’m following these six different decluttering systems that I found and I’m combining the best of all of them

 

Tonya Kubo (16:49.555)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (17:03.647)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (17:07.212)

to come up with, and I’ve been working on this system for two months.

 

Tonya Kubo (17:11.529)

Mm

 

Kathi (17:13.28)

And I think a lot of us who struggle with perfection are waiting for the perfect system. And we are here to say imperfect action beats perfect inaction. And what I mean by that is don’t spend all your time saddling up, go somewhere. The most important thing is to get this stuff out of your house.

 

Tonya Kubo (17:21.214)

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (17:41.599)

Mm

 

Kathi (17:42.302)

And when I say out of your house, it can go into the back of your car, but then the back of your car needs to be put somewhere. So, you know, if you, what, what do you say to that perfect, that perfect mindset? I mean, I know you just talked about that, but like just for the getting started, you’ve already talked about if it can’t be company perfect, I’m not going to start at all. So what, what would you say on day one to that person who

 

Tonya Kubo (17:48.713)

Exactly.

 

Tonya Kubo (18:04.67)

Mm

 

Kathi (18:12.148)

is like, but I’m going to make mistakes. It’s not going to be right. How do you help them, Tonya?

 

Tonya Kubo (18:17.135)

Right. Yeah, well, so I always tell people start small. And when we say small, we mean really small. Your very first day, I think the temptation is to say, I’m going to tackle this entire cabinet. I’m going to tackle this entire closet. Your very first day, I want you, if it’s the cabinet or the closet, I want you to just focus on one shelf. Like,

 

Kathi (18:25.954)

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (18:43.229)

The top of the microwave is, if that’s where everybody drops mail and paperwork and stuff, the top of the microwave is your only job on day one. Okay, the kitchen table, it’s your only job on day one. That’s it. It’s not the entire room. It’s not every flat surface in the room. It’s just one single flat surface. Take a picture before, take a picture after.

 

Kathi (18:56.525)

Yeah.

 

Mm -mm.

 

Kathi (19:09.366)

Yeah, you know, I’m gonna give one other suggestion. know, you know, I’ve been in houses where the kitchen table would take a week. So here would be my suggestion for a space that even though it looks small is overwhelming, get some painter’s tape and section off that table into quarters or eighths, whatever you need to do. And just do the one section at a time. It’s going to be so much more manageable, so much easier. Okay, we’re gonna take a.

 

Tonya Kubo (19:18.174)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (19:27.081)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (19:31.464)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (19:39.01)

Quick break and when we come back, we’re going to talk about where do you start? What do you do? We’ve already talked a little bit about it, but we have some tools that are going to help you get started. So we’ll be right back. Okay, friends, we are back and we’re talking about where do you get started? Tonya, my whole house is crazy. I don’t even know where to start. Can you please boss me around? Okay.

 

Tonya Kubo (20:01.383)

Yes, so we always say pick the room that bugs you the most. That’s your starting point. So it’s usually two different places. Place number one is where company might see. That’s usually where our members want to start because they want to feel good about having people in their home. But the other most commonly bothersome place is the place in the back of your mind that you were like, if I died in my sleep tonight and stranger saw that.

 

Kathi (20:14.103)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (20:30.171)

I would die a second death. Right? That is usually the number two. But I like to start in a public spot because then every day when I walk in the front door, I’m reminded of my progress. That is my favorite.

 

Kathi (20:31.756)

Mm hmm. Yeah.

 

Kathi (20:43.672)

Mmm, I love that and We also are going to be doing some challenges for you We’re so you need the most important thing is to stay active in the group So you can get those challenges. So, you know what’s going on and you can be there with other people you know what you’re talking about right there Tonya is the low-hanging fruit sometimes

 

Tonya Kubo (20:52.371)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:11.251)

Mm

 

Kathi (21:12.332)

You know, it’s the place that’s most obvious or the place the thing, you know, is going to be the easiest like right now in my entryway because we just got home from unpacking some stuff. There are some fruit boxes, you know, like the cardboard boxes you get at Costco and things like that. Like I could get five points right now by just going. That is low. I didn’t mean to do fruit boxes as your low-hanging fruit, but you know that will cement it in your mind now. Right.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:18.291)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:27.091)

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (21:32.767)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:41.085)

Right

 

Kathi (21:42.048)

Yes, so there are things that need to be thrown away. There are things that you’re like, well, maybe somebody will eat that banana. That was your thought on Tuesday. It’s now Friday. Nobody’s eating that banana. You can you can throw that away. That stained t-shirt that you’ve tried to bleach four times and it’s not coming out. You can either you cut it up for rags, or I’m going to let you count it.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:55.775)

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (22:10.057)

Mm -hmm

 

Kathi (22:10.196)

As a declutter I am because you’re repurposing it, and I love that idea, but get that low-hanging fruit, Tonya, let’s talk about how important is momentum and how do you keep it going.

 

Tonya Kubo (22:28.639)

Yeah, so the first thing, so I think momentum’s very important. So if you are mathy person, some of our members are mathy people, I am not a mathy person, but I’ve been doing this long enough to know that 33 items a day is about 250 items per week. And some folks really, because 33 items is not satisfying to them, they wanna do 250 in one sitting. And I…

 

Kathi (22:36.727)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (22:55.263)

I love that about you and at the same time, it is going to be a lot harder. It’s gonna feel harder to declutter one day a week to 250 items than it is to do a 10, 15, 20-minute session each day. So I think that’s part of the momentum is if you, know, six.

 

Kathi (23:11.5)

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (23:16.191)

say, hey, from 6 a.m. to 6 15 a.m. every day, I’m going to do my decluttering or from 2 15 to 2 30 every day, I’m going to do my decluttering and just make that happen. Then by the end of the month, you’re going to have a 30-day habit that has been built. And that is huge. And in terms of keeping going, can we just be honest that decluttering solo is not fun? OK, the demons in our head get really loud, I have found. And, you know, we start

 

Kathi (23:29.376)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

 

Kathi (23:39.797)

It’s done.

 

Tonya Kubo (23:46.239)

We start with the negative talk. Like, how did I let it get like this? My gosh. Like, I remember the last time I cleaned this space and if I’d only kept it up and da da da da. And really in terms of continuing that momentum and keeping your motivation, that’s why we have a community. I love to say, know, everybody joins Clutter Free Academy thinking they are the only person in the world who has a clutter problem. And then they find out they’ve got about 15,600 or 700 friends or so.

 

who also think they’re the only person in the world who has this problem.

 

Kathi (24:16.918)

Right, you know, and so I also want to talk about momentum, but with a different take on it. So like one of the ways that I keep myself going when there’s a big decluttering is by putting milestones into my path. So I don’t even know if it’s milestones, but let’s say triggers in the middle of my path. So if I’m really working on decluttering for a month,

 

Tonya Kubo (24:24.936)

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (24:39.411)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (24:45.848)

Then every week I’m going to Goodwill to drop off clothes. Every week or maybe every other week, I’m going to the dump to do a dump load of you know things that have accumulated in my house Every week I am I’m going to challenge myself to post 10 things on our free cycle group or our buy nothing group. Like I am going to be doing this

 

Tonya Kubo (24:50.494)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (24:56.083)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (25:10.323)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (25:15.576)

I’m going to give myself some smaller goals and targets and go from that. Okay. If you are going through your house and you’re noticing like we’ve got all the Barbie stuff in the corner and I have not seen that Barbie move in 18 months. How do you talk to your kids? I know yours are a little older, but you’ve, you know, how do you talk to your kids about

 

Tonya Kubo (25:41.695)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (25:45.174)

How do we consider if this is something we keep or not?

 

Tonya Kubo (25:48.625)

Yeah, so I always like, I will reframe the conversation and focus first on what to keep before what to get rid of. So I’ve never gone to my children and said, we have to get rid of stuff. Instead, I say, hey, you know, it looks like we have like more stuff than we actually have space for. What do you really love here? So if I found the Barbie in the corner, I would just say, hey, how much are we loving this Barbie right now? mommy, I love it, I love it.

 

Kathi (26:08.95)

Yeah, okay.

 

Tonya Kubo (26:17.351)

Okay, well, I noticed you haven’t played with it in a while. Is it because it’s not where it belongs? Or is it because you feel like maybe you’re a little too old to play with Barbies right now? And then, especially in the month of November, I frame donating as a way to play Santa for other children. And they get very generous when it’s framed that way.

 

Kathi (26:32.769)

Mm

 

Yeah, so great.

 

Kathi (26:40.892)

Yeah, because they can imagine where it’s going instead of into the void. Let me also talk about your adult kids stuff, your adult kids who have moved on. I will say, hey, you know, whether it’s my stuff that I think somebody in the family may want, or their stuff that has been left behind, I will often do it as a text.

 

Tonya Kubo (26:43.635)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (27:09.208)

To say hey, you know take a picture text it over. Hey, is this something you’d like or I’m going to Goodwill can I go drop that off and? So that they know it’s a binary decision It’s not no mom. I want you to keep it because I can’t make a decision It’s either going to your house or it’s being donated because my house is no longer a storage shed for you.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:38.324)

Right.

 

Kathi (27:39.308)

But I also have to be okay with the no, don’t want it conversation. And that’s really hard for a lot of people because you remember that as it was in our house, Boo Blanky was this, know, Justin’s whole life was, you know, focused on Boo Blanky. And now you don’t want it. Are you kidding me? But it doesn’t have the same meaning to him as it does.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:46.526)

Yup.

 

Kathi (28:08.888)

I did at the time, but he is now he is now 30 years out from blue blankie and it’s okay for him to let it go. So I have to be able to say, do you want to keep this? No. Okay. Then I will donate it. I will throw it away. I will do whatever it needs to be done. And then also just making sure that you have an easy system that you are not recreating all the time. You know, we talk about the, you know,

 

Tonya Kubo (28:10.461)

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (28:15.357)

Right.

 

Tonya Kubo (28:34.526)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (28:38.539)

three totes and two bags. So there’s a garbage and recycling bag. There’s put away, giveaway and other rooms. And that helps you make decisions the whole time. Tonya, I wanna start to wrap this up. What will they experience in the free group when they join for the month of November?

 

Tonya Kubo (28:48.287)

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (29:03.123)

Mm -hmm.

 

Yeah, so when you come into the month of November, be prepared. It’s a busy time, right? The challenge is a busy time. We have activity probably is like 3X, what it typically is, but you’re going to come in to the group and you are going to see before and after pictures showing all different types of living circumstances. We’ve got people who live in studio apartments. We have people who live in teeny tiny urban dwellings, people who have a lot, a lot of land.

 

a lot of open space and everything in between. have people who have several children. We have people who have no children, people who live alone, people who are, know, every age you can imagine. It’s always funny to me. Everybody joins thinking they’re gonna be the youngest person who’s ever joined the group and then they find out they’re not. Because clutter doesn’t, like clutter isn’t something that only becomes a problem after the age of 50, right? Many of us have a lifetime struggle.

 

Kathi (29:46.038)

Roommates, yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (30:00.467)

but you’re also going to get a lot of support. You’re gonna have me in there every single day supporting you. Kathi is gonna be in there multiple times a week. You’re gonna have Grace. Grace is our community manager over in our paid Clutter Free for Life membership, but she comes in. We’ve got Deanna and then our Clutter Free for Life members. This is what I love about our Clutter Free for Life members because they are the people who said, you know what? Like I can’t do this on my own. I actually need hand-holding support.

 

They come in and they serve as mentors. They help people. say, Hey, you know, I remember my first 30-day one K this is what worked for me. And it is just the most loving, accepting place for anybody who actually struggles with clutter. Now asterisk, big asterisk. If you are somebody who does not struggle with clutter, you are a born-organized person. Please do not join our group thinking you are going to tell everybody how to live right.

 

Kathi (30:54.967)

now.

 

Tonya Kubo (30:55.411)

Because we are the kindest corner of the internet for the cluttery peeps. We are not the kindest corner of the internet for the people who think they know better than the cluttery peeps.

 

Kathi (31:02.518)

Yeah, we just will kick you out. And the most loving, there are places for you. There are Reddit threads where you can go tell everybody else how to live. But Tonya and I do not do that. And we’ve made tremendous progress on our journey. But we don’t boss. I mean, we push you around in the kindest way possible, but it’s because you’ve asked us to. So there we go. And Tonya.

 

Tonya Kubo (31:13.012)

Yeah

 

Tonya Kubo (31:16.808)

No.

 

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (31:26.023)

Yes.

 

Kathi (31:29.91)

We’re going to do a little download for people who join the group, right?

 

Tonya Kubo (31:33.183)

Yes, yes. So every year we have kind of a different resource we provide for the 30 day one case so that people who are there every year have something a little different. But sort of this year what I have planned for our community is it’s the combination of what has been requested and served people well over the last five years. So we’re gonna have a calendar. It’s gonna give you what your challenge is for each day. And it’s going to have a spot where you can actually mark how many items you’ve decluttered.

 

for that day. So we have a separate tracking sheet that tracks you all the way to a thousand, but I think it’s important to be able to look at your calendar and see, hey, I was able to do 90 things on Monday. I did 10 things on Thursday. I’m still doing well. And so that’s going to be there for you to just give you that, individual guidance. I know it’s really hard, especially when you’re overwhelmed or when you’re starting out to go day by day, you need to be able to see a little bit ahead of you in the path. And that’s what we’re going to provide this time.

 

Kathi (32:31.774)

I love it. So guys, we’ll have the link below, but you can also just be on Facebook and do Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy and you will find us even if you just do Clutter Free Academy, you will find us. If you don’t know how to spell my name, it’s totally fine. But or check out the link below. Answer all the questions. There only like three, but we need you to answer them so we know that you’re our kind of people, which means cluttering and kind. That’s those are our kind of people.

 

Tonya Kubo (32:41.961)

Mm

 

Tonya Kubo (32:58.846)

Yeah.

 

Kathi (33:00.77)

Tonya, thanks so much for all your expertise today. Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (33:03.519)

Thank you, and one more thing, if you’re participating and you are a social media person, I wanna see #30day1K all over social media this year.

 

Kathi (33:10.506)

Yes. Yes, I love it. I love it. love it. I will make sure I am hashtagging up a storm. Friends, you’ve been listening to Clutterfree Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now go create the clutter-free life you’ve always wanted to live.