Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with…

 

the co -host with the most, it is Tonya Kubo. Although, here’s the thing. It’s so funny. Somehow, people got onto a discussion about who their favorite guests were on Clutter free Academy. It is a horse race between Tonya Kubo and Roger Lipp. If I could pick two people for it to be a horse race in, yes.

 

Tonya Kubo (00:40.974)

Tonya Kubo (00:45.454)

It is.

 

Kathi (00:55.489)

If I had to, we could do this entire podcast with just the two of you and be just fine. Because I feel like you bring the heart of a cluttery person who has done some healing to this. And Roger brings the, I live with a cluttery person. And, but I, I, I learned an interesting fact about our friend Roger Lipp. So we were, I learned we were driving away from my mom’s house and

 

Tonya Kubo (00:59.854)

Hahaha

 

Tonya Kubo (01:18.926)

What did you learn?

 

Kathi (01:25.281)

know, when we leave town, it’s kind of hilarious, Tonya, because we’ve got our Yeti cooler and we’ve got a pretty small car. We’ve got, we just bring the Jeep usually back and forth. So we had the Yeti cooler, we had our Sam’s order, we had, you know, I bring food back and forth from my mom’s. And then we had some dog food, like all this stuff. And my mom said, it looks like Fibber McGee is pulling out.

 

Tonya Kubo (01:28.398)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (01:44.142)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (01:54.625)

which I guess was a radio show in the 1940s. Right. Yeah, a little cultural context from 80 years ago. And so Roger says, I’ve been called that all my life. And I’m like, wait, what?

 

Tonya Kubo (01:57.966)

I’ve heard the name but I had no idea what it meant. So thank you for explaining for me. I appreciate this. Thanks.

 

Tonya Kubo (02:13.774)

Okay, now we need to know why.

 

Kathi (02:16.289)

Okay, so, you know, Roger’s mom got remarried in like the the 70s. And his new father, which is kind of funny. His name was Dr. Dobson. Now, not the Dr. Dobson. Yeah, yes, exactly. But this was Dr. Dobson who was a pastor. And he’s very interesting. He actually shook the hand of Einstein because they were both at college at the same time. Right? Right? So interesting.

 

Tonya Kubo (02:28.526)

Okay, not the Dr. Dobson.

 

Kathi (02:46.177)

But I know. Roger didn’t know that. I asked him. I asked him because I knew that they were at, I think it was Princeton at the same time. I had done a little research. Yeah, anywho. Yeah. And let’s just say Roger’s stepdad, much older than Roger’s stepmom. Little bit of a scandal, but you know, kind of anyway. That’s what keeps things interesting. Anyway, so Dr. Dean was his name.

 

Tonya Kubo (02:46.414)

Why isn’t Roger pulling that out at pub trivia?

 

Tonya Kubo (02:58.67)

Huh, okay.

 

Kathi (03:15.425)

Never raised his kids. They were always raised in like a missionary school things like that so Roger was the first kid he had ever really lived with and He thought Roger was this wild child and I’m like, my goodness. Tell me all the good stories He goes, yeah, he’d be up really late at night and I’m like tell me tell me more cuz I have no scandal on Roger He goes yeah working on that photography equipment. I’m like

 

Tonya Kubo (03:21.518)

Mmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (03:44.238)

he was in the dark room late at night alone with negatives.

 

Kathi (03:44.865)

Okay. Develop developing things for the yearbook and the newspaper. Yeah. So anywho, all this to say, Fibber McGee, so apparently Roger has been called cluttery his whole life. I have seen no evidence of this really in his life, but I just I, I, it felt good.

 

to know, you know, maybe we have a common core. This is way off topic. Okay.

 

Tonya Kubo (04:18.958)

off topic because today is my favorite episode. Okay, I do. I was like…

 

Kathi (04:24.641)

You love these episodes. I love them too, but you get a little bit of sick joy, I would just say.

 

Tonya Kubo (04:30.862)

Well, here’s what I love. So we’re doing a mailbag episode, which, and the mailbag episodes are my favorite. And the reason they are my favorite is twofold. Number one, I love, love, love, love, love that we can take the real life current experiences of our Clear Free Academy members and bring them onto the show to help other people who aren’t on Facebook.

 

Kathi (04:35.201)

Yep.

 

Kathi (04:54.945)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (04:58.766)

didn’t know we have a Facebook group or any of that. Like I love that. I also love the message that we send to our Clutterfree Academy members who ask these questions that they’re really not alone. Because if they were the only person on the planet who had this problem, who had this question, we would not be devoting an entire episode to it.

 

Kathi (05:12.289)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (05:20.161)

Right. And I love what you’re saying there, to feel less alone. Because we all sit in our houses, we only get invited over to perfect houses. And so we assume that we’re the only one without a perfect house. And just by our Facebook group statistics alone, which is over 15 ,000 people, I would challenge you to sit, I would challenge your thinking on that, that you’re the only one, because you’re not.

 

Tonya Kubo (05:31.214)

Right.

 

Tonya Kubo (05:41.262)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (05:47.726)

Yeah, exactly. So today’s question, I feel like speaks to the heart of where many people are when they join Clutterfree Academy. So I find that we have a few composite new members. There is the person who is like me, feeling suffocated by their stuff to the point that actually being unhoused sounds liberating.

 

Kathi (06:02.465)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:15.502)

Like the idea of having nothing but a backpack sounds like the ultimate liberation, which, go ahead.

 

Kathi (06:22.977)

My mom, Tonya, has a button that says potential bag lady. Like, yeah, she just, I think especially having two teenagers, she was like, just go and, you know, and by the way, we’re not making fun of unhoused people at all, friends, please, please, please. But I think everybody’s had, I think that’s why we like hotels so much.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:29.71)

Yeah!

 

Tonya Kubo (06:37.262)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:44.27)

No.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:49.966)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (06:51.201)

I think that’s why we like the thought of doing an RV or something like that. I think a lot of Cloré people have those same ideals.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:54.798)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:58.574)

Right. And so to the point, right, because what I’m really getting at is so overwhelmed that you just want to escape. We have that person and they want to escape their living circumstances. And then we have the person who comes who actually has a moral struggle. Like they’re not sure. They know that other people have a problem with the condition of their house or other people have a problem with their cluttery ways, but they’re not actually sure that other people are right. Because

 

Kathi (07:05.921)

bright.

 

Yes.

 

Kathi (07:27.713)

What do you mean by that?

 

Tonya Kubo (07:28.745)

Because in their heart of hearts, they think they’re doing good in the world by keeping hold of things. And so that’s where this question comes from. Because I know, like the outsiders who are not cluttery assume that, you know, our group is full of people who just can’t keep house, which you know how I feel about that. And that’s an episode for another day. But this is the person who says, okay, I hear what you’re saying that

 

Kathi (07:34.913)

Mmm, yes.

 

Yes.

 

Kathi (07:48.481)

Yeah, right.

 

Tonya Kubo (07:57.006)

I, you know, that it makes sense and it’s a good idea to have a house that’s tidy, that’s peace -filled, that my family enjoys. And yet, I genuinely cannot give anything away if it has even a modicum, even like a little itty bitty hair’s breadth chance of being useful at some point in time to someone, even if that someone’s not me.

 

What do I do when I can’t give anything away without feeling guilty? That’s the question. And it’s a doozy, right, Kathi? Because there is the decluttering aspect. There is the internal emotional aspect of the guilt. And I would even argue the shame of releasing stuff.

 

Kathi (08:25.985)

Right.

 

Kathi (08:35.329)

Hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (08:48.686)

And we’ve worked a lot of times with members who the shame and the guilt comes from they spent money on that thing, right? That they’re not using. But this is different. This is I can see that somewhere, somehow somebody might need an extra cord from a slow cooker and therefore I cannot get rid of the cord. So that’s the question that I’m bringing to you, OYZ1. Hit me with your knowledge now.

 

Kathi (08:56.577)

Right.

 

Kathi (09:08.481)

Mm -hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Well, this is going to be a mutual knowledge thing. Okay. So can I tell you, I’m just gonna throw up confessions here. Okay. So, okay, I am a kid from the 80s, right? You know, Brat Pack, all that kind of stuff, like hardcore 80s. Yes, I know. I love them. And

 

Tonya Kubo (09:21.326)

Yeah

 

Tonya Kubo (09:30.734)

Sure, I’m all up for confessions.

 

Kathi (09:44.929)

But I grew up in a very black and white time. Like, excuse me. Like, if you were really hungry, you would eat those green peppers.

 

Tonya Kubo (09:54.094)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (10:05.397)

I was like, and we all could finish your sentence for you. If you were really hungry, you would eat what I put in front of you.

 

Kathi (10:08.481)

Yes. Right, right. And, you know, if you if you, you know, you shouldn’t have to buy clothes, because you should be happy with what you have. It very black and white thinking. And, you know, to be grateful for everything you have, which I agree with, Tonya, I don’t actually know a lot of people. I feel like

 

that express their gratitude for what they have more than I do. And I’m not saying that I don’t think I’m a big bragger on here, but I just know like my intense gratitude for what I have. And that can also be a trap. Like,

 

Tonya Kubo (10:42.734)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (10:52.718)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (10:58.318)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (11:01.249)

If you know, here’s a shirt and it has a bunch of stains on it. Okay, so I’m going to work really hard to get those stains out and I got those stains out, but now it’s a little frayed. But you know what? I’m going to, I’m going to, I’m going to do this, this, this, this. And then finally it gets to the place where that shirt can’t be used anymore. Well, I should be able to use that as a rag, even though it’s an ineffective way of cleaning my house. And I hate cleaning my house.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:08.494)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:23.662)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (11:30.657)

But I should, I should, I should. The person who is struggling to give things away without guilt, who I contend towards that, is we have got a brain full of shoulds. And maybe we grew up in a house where we were being corrected a lot. Like, okay, can I give a silly example without throwing my mom under the bus?

 

Tonya Kubo (11:32.942)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:38.03)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:45.902)

Mmm.

 

Kathi (12:00.769)

So yesterday, I was helping her clean her living room and there was just a plastic water bottle there. And I said, are you using this to water plants? And she goes, no, I think, you know, it just got left there by somebody. And I said, okay. So I go to the sink to dump it out. She goes, but water a plant with it, Kathi. And like, there’s…

 

Tonya Kubo (12:00.814)

Sure.

 

Tonya Kubo (12:18.862)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (12:31.809)

So it’s just funny, it’s a funny example, right? But you may have grown up in a house that was like that about everything. Like, okay, when that shirt’s no longer good, then we’re gonna give it to goodwill, even if it has stains on it, because somebody should be grateful for it, and somebody should wear it. And…

 

Tonya Kubo (12:34.606)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (12:41.806)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (12:57.185)

I have always been under the impression, or not always, but definitely in the last 20 years, if I wouldn’t want to wear it, why should I expect somebody else to want to wear it? If I wouldn’t eat it, why should I expect somebody else to want to eat it? I’ve had to change my thinking on that and say, it’s not a bet. We can be in such a poverty mindset that it’s impossible for us to give things away or to

 

Tonya Kubo (13:21.23)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (13:26.177)

throw things away. And, you know, like, okay, maybe that, you know, it’s that toaster oven, that if somebody spent $30 repairing it, that it could be useful. But most people don’t know how to repair a toaster oven, don’t know where to start with that. And yes, there are things you could do. And if you’re one of those naturally handy people, yay, but most of us aren’t.

 

Tonya Kubo (13:28.846)

Yeah…

 

Tonya Kubo (13:35.79)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (13:56.321)

And we have to figure out where we’re going to put our time, effort, and energy. And all of this is trade -offs. There is no… So many of us, I struggle with this mightily, are closet perfectionists. We don’t look like we’re perfectionists because if you came into our house, you know I’m not a perfectionist, but I am. I’m trapped in the way I should be doing things and I’m not doing things.

 

Tonya Kubo (13:57.038)

right?

 

Tonya Kubo (14:01.55)

Mm -hmm.

 

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (14:23.777)

and I live with that guilt all the time. And Tony, I want to hear your response to this. We’re going to take a quick break. We’re going to go get some bills paid. We’re going to come right back. And I want to hear your response to that perfectionistic mindset and maybe the people we grew up with contributing to that.

 

Tonya Kubo (14:34.062)

Yeah

 

Tonya Kubo (14:38.638)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (14:44.046)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (14:46.561)

Okay friends, we are back. Tonya is going to give us all her wisdom about how perfectionism really can be one of the main reasons why it’s hard to give away clutter, items, et cetera, without guilt. Go Tonya.

 

Tonya Kubo (15:04.59)

Alrighty. So it’s interesting this perfectionist idea, because I definitely agree with it. And I, there’s so much wrapped up in there. And I think your point is, you know, so much of our adult cluttery ways are steeped in some form of childhood trauma. And I’m not saying like capital T front page headline trauma.

 

Kathi (15:30.625)

Goodbye.

 

No.

 

Tonya Kubo (15:33.998)

I am saying I’m really talking about the trauma that just builds up. It’s like the thing that hurts your feelings but maybe didn’t hurt your brother’s feelings. That sort of stuff, right? Like you just, you carried it differently.

 

Kathi (15:45.185)

It’s, you can be, yeah, you can be traumatized just by imperfect parenting. And that, it’s something you still have to work out. It’s okay, you know, because we were all raised by imperfect parents. That’s what happened.

 

Tonya Kubo (15:52.558)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (16:01.71)

Exactly. So with that, I think that we also have to come to some point where we say, who do I really want to be? Right? What like what’s mine to carry? What do I want to carry? And I know for me, that cluttering journey has really been about going, huh, I don’t have to own this, right? Like this wasn’t even my junk to own in the first place.

 

Kathi (16:14.881)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (16:18.849)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (16:31.809)

That’s right.

 

Tonya Kubo (16:32.101)

And so, yes, there’s the perfectionistic part of wanting to do things right that our Clegary folks really, really struggle with. But I think the point you’re actually making is sometimes it’s not our own perfectionism, but it’s perfectionism that was projected onto us.

 

Kathi (16:51.041)

Mm -hmm. If you’re going to do it the right way, if you’re going to do, you know, there’s a moral attachment to being thrifty and reusing banks and a moral attachment to spending less money, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And some of those are good things. You know, I believe in those things, but also they can be guilt traps.

 

Tonya Kubo (17:04.462)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (17:19.521)

They can be deep traps. And also, lots of times, Tonya, you may be done with something, but like we were talking about earlier, you still see the value in it. So you want to give it to me so that I can get the value out of it. I one time had somebody at church who said, Kathi,

 

Tonya Kubo (17:31.278)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (17:39.726)

Right.

 

Kathi (17:47.041)

I can’t use these hundred baskets anymore. And I’m not even joking, a hundred different baskets. 100 baskets. There were more than that, but it was at a minimum of a hundred. But I’ve left them here for you because I know you could do something with them. And in my brain is like, do you just want me to take them to the dump? Like, what do you want me to do? And it was, she was putting,

 

Tonya Kubo (17:50.734)

Mm -hmm. 100 baskets.

 

Tonya Kubo (18:06.414)

Like what?

 

Kathi (18:15.649)

a judgment on me to say, basically, if you’re a good person, you would figure out how to let these not go to waste. In my thinking, it was like, lady, you should not have collected 100 baskets. And yeah, and this was a lovely lady and she has since passed. And I think sometimes, like I’ve had some relatives where I’ve had to say, hey, I can take that from you, but you have to give me

 

full autonomy to deal with it in the way I want. You’re never going to ask me, where is this? Do you display it? And those relatives couldn’t do it. They needed, it’s a control issue, right? And I struggle with control issues as well. And I’ve had to learn that if I’m going to give something away, I have to be okay with whatever happens to it. And that is a hard place for people to be.

 

Tonya Kubo (19:10.574)

Mm -hmm. That’s true.

 

Kathi (19:15.649)

But also I need to make sure that I am controlling my own environment and not letting things seep in that or not refusing to give things away because of this mindset. You know, I am very quick to say, hey, I’m not using this. I’m going to give it away. I now I am. But I used

 

Tonya Kubo (19:32.206)

Mm -hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (19:42.318)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (19:45.185)

I used to have this guilt of like, I have to get the value out of it. I have to get the money out of it. Like I have to hold onto that shirt because I haven’t worn it enough. Well, why haven’t I worn it enough? Because it actually, you know, maybe it was itchy. And if it’s, so I think that’s the next step when you’re like, why am I not using this item? Is it because I’ve

 

Tonya Kubo (19:50.286)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (19:56.206)

Right.

 

Tonya Kubo (20:03.566)

Mmm.

 

Kathi (20:13.153)

outgrown it, either physically or emotionally or mentally, well then it’s okay to give to somebody else or if it’s not usable, it’s okay for it to go into the landfill. Every human gets a certain amount of landfill stuff and I would challenge you to look at your landfill consumption on the

 

acquiring end instead of the getting rid of it. That’s where you can do the most impact. So thinking about something before you purchase it, asking yourself, why am I no longer using this? You know, I had some, some pants that I was like, I’m just not wearing them. I’m just not wearing them. And so I’m like, okay, I’m going to pick them up. Why am I not wearing them? Well, when I picked them up, I realized, Tonya, what I kept doing.

 

Tonya Kubo (20:43.437)

Mm -hmm.

 

Mmm.

 

Kathi (21:10.209)

was I kept pulling them out of the closet, seeing they had this weird stain on them, and putting them back in the closet. This was not a good system for me, right?

 

Tonya Kubo (21:16.654)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:21.582)

Can I just tell you I have lived that exact same system, Kathi? It is okay. I feel you right now.

 

Kathi (21:24.161)

Right? Right? Yes! And so, but these are good fitting pants and I like how they look on me. I just don’t like a giant stain. So what am I doing? I’m dyeing those pants tomorrow.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:32.27)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:40.286)

I was just gonna ask if dying fixes that.

 

Kathi (21:42.849)

It does. It does. You have to go with darker color. So for me, it’s navy blue. For Tonya Kubo, it’s black. But you know, if you go that darker color.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:46.766)

Okay.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:52.238)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (22:04.641)

I’ll just be honest, sometimes we’re trying too hard to save things that don’t need to be saved. Maybe the taco casserole that I made the other day that I was trying a new recipe on and Roger said, he’s very appreciative of my cooking, but he goes, it tastes like there’s a piece of Wonder Bread in the middle of it. And he was not down with that texture. And I tried to save it a couple of times. Yeah, sometimes you just need to give up and it’s okay to give up, try to fix something. But if you can’t,

 

Tonya Kubo (22:08.75)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (22:19.214)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (22:24.878)

Got it.

 

Tonya Kubo (22:29.262)

Yeah.

 

Kathi (22:33.729)

fix it, don’t keep it. I want you to hear me clearly. I’m not screaming at Tonya. I’m screaming at all of my friends who are like, well, at some point there’s magically going to need to be a use for that. You know, I don’t know why I have 300 solo cups, but there’s going to be a day where somebody is going to need those 300 solo cups or, you know, maybe it’s today. Maybe your kid’s school needs them. I don’t know what the

 

Tonya Kubo (22:39.758)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (22:49.87)

and

 

Kathi (23:03.713)

The rules are about red solo cups like at a kids school. Is it too evocative of a college party? Okay.

 

Tonya Kubo (23:09.454)

No, nobody knows, they’re just disposable cups that everybody uses.

 

Kathi (23:12.353)

Okay, good, good, good, good. But if you cannot figure out a use for that item, if you can’t figure out somebody who would gleefully receive that item, and here’s the test, Tonya. If you put it up on a buy nothing group and you get no takers, it’s probably junk.

 

Tonya Kubo (23:31.118)

Yep, that makes sense.

 

Kathi (23:32.641)

It’s a really quick test. I want us to think about, it’s not about I’ve wasted the money. I’ve gotten my money’s worth, if I wore it one time or 100 times. And now it’s time for somebody else. Cluttery people are so generous. So it’s time for somebody else to get the use out of it. If you’ve only worn it one time,

 

Tonya Kubo (23:44.814)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (23:56.75)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (24:02.337)

then it probably still has a lot of life left in it and somebody else will use it. But if you’ve worn it a hundred times, it may be time for it to go into clothing recycling. It’s okay, I promise.

 

Tonya Kubo (24:13.102)

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (24:16.782)

That makes sense. And I think, you know, part of me feels like, well, we say that all the time. And then the other part of me feels like, you know what? I know early in my journey, I couldn’t hear it enough. I needed the constant reminder that it is not my job to single -handedly save the environment by never putting another thing in a landfill. It is not my job to be the example of stewardship.

 

Kathi (24:29.281)

Mm -hmm. Right.

 

Kathi (24:40.737)

Right, right.

 

Tonya Kubo (24:46.83)

for the entire planet by retaining everything I ever bought or ever received. So thank you. Thank you for that because even now so many years later, it’s still a helpful reminder.

 

Kathi (24:53.057)

Yeah.

 

Kathi (25:01.281)

Well, and I really want to challenge us to think, for some reason, us Cluttery people think about the environment after the purchase. And so to think about before we purchase what, you know, you know my favorite motto from World War I, use it up, wear it out, make do, do without.

 

Tonya Kubo (25:14.157)

Yes.

 

Kathi (25:29.313)

That is so much about not bringing new things into our home. And it’s okay. We need to buy things sometimes. I bought a tank top yesterday because right now it is a 110 in Sacramento and I needed a tank top. I’m fine with that. I felt like that was a good purchase, something I’ll be able to use for years to come. But

 

Tonya Kubo (25:35.31)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (25:51.438)

Yeah.

 

Kathi (25:58.657)

I thought about it before I bought it. This has been the biggest change I really do like in my clutter free journey after seriously decluttering my house is being so intentional and thoughtful about what I bring into the house. So if you’re feeling guilty about getting rid of things, I always think about it like this. It’s kind of a reset. So if you have a bunch of clothes in your closet that you’re not using,

 

Tonya Kubo (26:22.222)

Mm.

 

Kathi (26:26.785)

but you go to your closet every day and you’re like, there should be something here, but there’s nothing I want to wear. It is time to get rid of some of those things in your closet. So you actually have an accurate picture of what you have and can say, you know what? I don’t have a cream tank top. And that would actually go with a lot of things I have. Look at that. I don’t have a pair of jeans that I feel amazing in.

 

Everybody needs a pair of jeans that they just feel like is a banger. And so, but you’ll never know that when you have 75 things in there that you never wear. And that’s what I want for you. So get that accurate inventory of what you actually have. This could be for food. This could be for gardening equipment. This could be for your closet. This could be for your linens. Because otherwise what we end up doing, Tonya, is we go to the store and you’re like,

 

Tonya Kubo (26:57.55)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:06.414)

so true.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:21.678)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (27:23.809)

Yeah, I remember that the last time I went to my closet, there was nothing to wear. So I think I just need to buy some new clothes, some new clothes, right? And then what we end up doing is buying things that we don’t need. And then we hold on to things because, well, I spent so much money on it’s this vicious cycle. And we’re going to break the cycle by being intentional about what we bring into our home.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:28.782)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:32.558)

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:37.806)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:48.814)

I love that. I love that.

 

Kathi (27:50.209)

Yeah. Okay. Well, Tonya, I love these mailbag issues because I feel like we get to go deeper. We get to go to the heart of it. We get to go to our own histories and our own coming up and thinking about this. And guys, when we talked about that trauma, I want you to hear me that you…

 

Tonya Kubo (28:03.214)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (28:13.537)

I love what you said, Tonya. It’s the lowercase t. It’s the things that make us act in ways that we wouldn’t want to act and make us use decisions. And guys, here’s the thing. I know that I have done this for my kids. If my kids have kids, they’ll do it for their kids. This is part of the cycle of life. But we also know that we can break those cycles.

 

Tonya Kubo (28:17.486)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (28:24.814)

Right.

 

Tonya Kubo (28:41.966)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (28:42.497)

And when I break a cycle, even as the adult parent of adults, it does trickle down. They can see changes in our lives and I think that’s beautiful. Tonya, thank you so much for being with me today.

 

Tonya Kubo (28:49.102)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (28:56.462)

Thanks for having me, Kathi.

 

Kathi (28:58.337)

And guys, thank you for being with us. If you are struggling in this and you are not part of our Facebook group, can I really encourage you to go over there and check it out? And I’ve heard from a couple of people recently, well, I tried to join and I was not let in. Let me tell you, you probably didn’t answer some questions and that’s okay. But just know that there are questions to ask and answer, there are questions to answer. And if you’re not crazy,

 

Tonya Kubo (29:19.438)

Yes.

 

Tonya Kubo (29:24.718)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (29:28.129)

We will let you in or if you’re all kind of crazy, we’ll let you in. It’s all good friends. Okay Yeah, so join us over at Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy where we talk about these kind of issues all the time and we can support each other because we love to hear what your answers to these questions are as well because we get more wisdom from everybody You’ve been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now go create the Clutter Free life. You were always designed to live