Kathi (00:01.381)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter -Free Academy, where our heart is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And we are back. If you didn’t get to hear last week’s episode with designer Hilary Prall,

and content creator, and she’s just fabulous, you guys. You just need to go check her out. Go take a listen to that, because I think that that was a really rich and interesting conversation. Hilary is the daughter of a hoarder and has had to walk through that journey. And as many of you know, both Tonya and I have walked through that journey as well. And to get a little bit of an idea of what you can and cannot do in that journey.

Hilary Prall (00:32.557)

You

Kathi (01:00.549)

But today I want to tap into the other side of Hilary’s life and that is about the design side and You know Hilary I’m sure you said that you’re still going through some of your mom’s things like you’re still working on that situation in your life and That’s been kind of exhausting and I thought it was such an interesting point when we are surrounded by so much clutter

whether it’s ours or somebody else’s, it really can deplete you artistically, creatively, emotionally. Is that what you’ve been going through the past couple of years?

Hilary Prall (01:44.907)

Yeah, I think I just, I mean, aside from just, you know, the suddenness of losing my mom, but then knowing that I was gonna have to deal with all of this stuff. And it feels very lonely. I mean, people will offer to help you, but they have no idea. And we have had very helpful people in it. The sort of…

part of this is that my mom had gotten remarried and we love him and are very thankful to have him in our lives. We’re his only family. He’s our only family at this point. But it’s his house. And so, you know, whereas most people we would have sorted through everything and then had an auction or an estate sale, we have had to work around him and schlepping it and, you know,

Kathi (02:26.853)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hilary Prall (02:38.794)

my husband likes to be very efficient and not touch things three times or four times. And it was, you know, and we’ve sort of had to deal with him saying, it’s totally fine. And he has been very patient, but then he would get a wild hair and like clear out a whole section of stuff and shove it in a closet. And so it’s like, so now I have to re go through that closet. So just kind of, you know, that part of, and then she lived an hour away. So just a lot of things that made.

Kathi (02:42.853)

Right.

Kathi (03:00.261)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (03:07.977)

made it all just a little bit harder. It’s like, you know, couldn’t something be a little easier? So we have the bulk of it done now. The other thing is we had to go through every box because it was just, she did try to get organized several times. And so there would be stuff mixed in that shouldn’t have been and whatever. So we have the bulk of it done to the point that the rest can easily be.

Kathi (03:13.797)

Right.

Kathi (03:20.933)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (03:33.161)

donated or taken to auction in just one of our vehicles. We had to rent a moving truck for the big auction. And then she just had a lot of jewelry. So I have taken, I think, three loads now to a local jewelry store to have to sell the metal. She had a lot of costume, but also, I mean, it’s worth money, the gold. So I probably have one.

Kathi (03:39.429)

Yeah.

Kathi (03:44.549)

Hmm.

Kathi (03:52.869)

Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (04:00.392)

maybe one more, two more loads to take of that. So just the time that it takes. So it takes all your free time. And so, you know, I would do whatever work I could during the week that I felt like doing for myself, for my own business, keeping our house running. And then, you know, we really tried on the weekends to get down there and do some work. So.

Kathi (04:08.677)

Yeah.

Kathi (04:15.973)

Yeah.

Kathi (04:23.205)

Hilary, let me ask you a question before we dive into the design and decorating side of things. I was just listening to a great person on TikTok whose mother suddenly passed away. And she said she was giving advice for any parents out there about wills and estates and trusts and things like that. It was great, really terrific advice. I would love to hear from you as somebody who is going through the thick of it.

What would your top piece of advice be for somebody like your mom? Like, is there a list she could have left? What could she have done to make this a little bit easier? We know she wasn’t gonna get herself organized, but is there something she could have done? And then what would be your top piece of advice for somebody who’s in your situation, who’s going into a hoarder’s house? Who, what?

Hilary Prall (05:10.631)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:20.677)

I would love those two pieces of advice.

Hilary Prall (05:24.966)

So I think both pieces of advice can work for both parties. So number one, we’ve talked about this a whole bunch. Thankfully, my mom left us some money to work with. There was money in the estate, but no matter what you’re doing to get rid of stuff, it costs money. Dumpsters cost money. You can take stuff to the Goodwill or whatever, but when you’re talking about a hoarder’s house,

Kathi (05:29.029)

Okay.

Kathi (05:37.765)

Okay.

Hilary Prall (05:52.485)

And I know people think about hoarders as being dirty. My mom wasn’t like that. I think she could have gone down that road had she not gotten remarried. It was just such tremendous volumes of stuff. Some of it, you know, there was mold involved and things like that. But you have to somehow get it to wherever it’s going. And you can’t. It’s not just going to be a, you know, a few loads to goodwill. Number one, they don’t want all that stuff in one trip.

Kathi (05:52.581)

Yeah.

Kathi (05:57.893)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kathi (06:20.357)

Right.

Hilary Prall (06:21.509)

but you have to somehow get rid of it. Thankfully we lived close enough that it was reasonable, but if you lived out of state, I don’t know what people would do if you’re not close. I mean, so have some money set aside, I guess. If you are not the parent and you’re the person who you know you’re gonna have to deal with this, I would start maybe talking to figure out.

Kathi (06:30.021)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (06:37.029)

Yes.

Hilary Prall (06:47.492)

Where’s my local auction? Who does the state sales? Now, again, other situations, you might be able to have someone come in and do the auction there or whatever. And a lot of times with hoarders, if it’s bad, the stuff’s not salvageable. So you could call, like you can hire 1 -800 -GOT -JUNK, but maybe just come up with a game plan of some sort of how you are gonna liquidate it because it is a lot and it’s a lot of work and it’s, you know,

Kathi (07:01.125)

Right. Yes.

Kathi (07:14.373)

Mmm.

Hilary Prall (07:17.156)

Again, you don’t want to, I don’t like to ask for help. That’s my personality, but at some point we just needed some bodies to help us get stuff upstairs and not completely break our bodies and burn out. So just how you’re gonna deal with it, the finances, what that looks like. We’ve spent a lot of money just trying to get rid of stuff, which seems crazy.

Kathi (07:21.893)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:30.629)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:42.949)

It does.

Hilary Prall (07:44.611)

The other thing that I think would be helpful, luckily, like I have said, I love old stuff. I have always loved old stuff. A lot of the stuff I have now acquired that was family, I looked at at my grandma’s house when she had it. And so I would just pour through stuff. So I knew what was a lot of family stuff. My sister would have had no idea, because she doesn’t care about that stuff. I wish I would have asked or,

Kathi (07:59.973)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (08:13.282)

enforced a little bit more with my mom, please write down the history of this or who did this belong to. Because at a certain point, not that it matters, you know, like 50 years from now, I’m not going to care if my nieces keep everything that was mine. And I don’t think that our ancestors think that you should. But it is important to you know, if something’s really important or has provenance, you should

Kathi (08:18.085)

Hmm, yeah.

Kathi (08:30.597)

Right.

Kathi (08:34.405)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (08:40.546)

want to know those stories. And I did know some of it, but I wish either my mom had done more or I had asked more about it because she held on to those things so tightly that we didn’t know a lot of the stories behind them. There are things that I remember from my childhood, even from our own house that I wanted to hold on to, but I just wish I knew a little bit more of the history behind some of the stuff.

Kathi (09:02.565)

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, my mom is putting Post -it notes under things. And just to say a little bit about where she got that milk glass or whatever the thing is. And like, she is, you know, for a long time when I would go visit her, she would say, don’t throw away the milk glass. You can sell it, or you can keep it, but don’t throw it away. And I’m like, okay, mom.

Hilary Prall (09:10.241)

Okay, yeah.

Hilary Prall (09:15.905)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (09:27.36)

Yep. Yep.

Kathi (09:28.869)

I’m learning about milk glass. I promise but you know, I just want to hear I want I want everybody who is in our clutter free Listening audience to hear what Hilary has said that Your mom who I’m sure was a lovely but complicated person Left you with a task that has left you feeling alone and

Hilary Prall (09:31.904)

Yes.

Kathi (09:58.341)

I don’t think any of us would wish that upon our children. And so to hear what Hilary is saying, if there are things that you can do right now, if there are things you can get rid of right now, if there are the stories that you can tell about those items so that your child or whomever is, your nieces, your nephews, your grandkids, whomever it is, they don’t.

End up feeling alone. I think that would be list. That would be a great service that you have provided here Hilary Okay, I want to talk about more fun things. Let’s talk about fun Okay So I want you love vintage. I think a lot of our cluttery people do I think one of the things and when I say cluttery people I count myself as as one of those people so i’m not pointing any finger. Well, if i’m pointing fingers i’m pointing them back at me but

Hilary Prall (10:29.211)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (10:56.517)

I think we, a lot of cluttery people have a real deep appreciation for vintage. And that’s why it is hard for us to get rid of things. So how do you incorporate your love for vintage into your designs in a way that promotes a healthy clutter -free living space? Because it can be really easy to do too much or keep things just because they were old. But how do you incorporate it into a way,

that it’s not just lovable, but livable.

Hilary Prall (11:30.014)

I will say we don’t have children, so it makes it a lot easier. I think if you have little kids running around, you’re not gonna have all of this stuff. That’s just how it is. We do have three active pets, so I have to be okay if things get broken or whatever. I have a few things even right now that…

Kathi (11:32.997)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (11:38.725)

Right.

Kathi (11:46.437)

Yes.

Hilary Prall (11:53.79)

I know I need to change out just because of how we live and I’m tired of messing with it. I think that’s part of it is if you if it’s constantly bringing you angst or whatever, then reevaluate it. You know, I really try to keep our bedroom very calm, very clutter free. And sometimes it’s just the addition of one extra thing that can just that’s it. I need to I need to clear the decks. So.

Kathi (12:21.957)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (12:23.101)

I think for me, I don’t ever want people to feel like they have to be overly careful. Last week, we have a cleaning lady that comes every couple of weeks and she does a great job considering how much nonsense I have. And so just very absentmindedly, she was here and I was out talking while she was working and I was just going through and fluffing my stuff because I’m also a little OCD.

Kathi (12:28.741)

Hmm.

Kathi (12:32.773)

Yeah.

Kathi (12:37.797)

Hahaha!

Hilary Prall (12:50.076)

And she said, I’m sorry. She said, I can’t ever remember how your stuff goes back. I said, do not worry about that. That’s on me. That is for me to go through and be fidgety about. So I think just manage your expectations. I mean, do you want people to feel comfortable in your house? Then, you know, they have to be able to live with your stuff. Plenty of people. I have an Instagram friend that has the most incredible home.

Kathi (13:10.917)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (13:18.587)

and I was lucky enough to go and visit it and it is museum worthy. But also I think it’d be really hard to add anybody else to that house. So I think it does have to depend on what your, and he would say that, so I think it’s okay. But you have to be okay with whatever your situation is and what it can accommodate, I guess.

Kathi (13:23.365)

Hmm.

Kathi (13:32.357)

Mm -hmm. Yes.

Kathi (13:42.117)

I love that it’s being realistic about how you live so you can be realistic about how you design, how you bring things in and living with what you love. Guys, we’re gonna take a quick break and then when we come back, I wanna talk to Hilary about what advice she would give to somebody that she was helping with designs who struggles with clutter. We’re gonna take a quick break and then we’ll come back with that.

Hilary Prall (13:47.098)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:12.293)

Okay friends, we are back and Hilary knows our cluttery hearts. She knows our cluttery spaces. And so if you were working with a client, what advice would you give to somebody who tends towards clutter? Do you have any really practical ideas or solutions or maybe some inspiration for them?

Hilary Prall (14:27.962)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (14:33.689)

I think honestly the first thing is clear the decks a little bit. Take everything out if you’re redoing a space. If you’re unsure about something, put it in a tub and if you don’t care about it a month from now, three months from now, it can move on. It can find somewhere else to live. I also think same with clothing. If you’re tired of wearing something but you hold on to it because, I might use that, well, when you’re ready to use it,

maybe just go buy something new. Say I over the last three years have lost over 70 pounds. So I don’t need to hold on to those old clothes because I’m gonna buy something new. Life is very, very short. So I don’t think that you need to hold on to every last detail of everything. Keep the sentimental pieces. Part of…

Kathi (15:04.869)

Yeah, yeah.

Kathi (15:11.173)

Wow.

Mm -hmm. Right.

Hilary Prall (15:29.369)

Part of going through my mom’s stuff was I’ve really sifted through. So I’ve, you’ve touched every single thing. And I have an entire closet downstairs plus some overflow of family things that I’ve brought home. My sister needs to come through and go through them. And then the rest of it, I’m gonna pick the things that I really care about and the rest I’m gonna try to reach out to the historical society of where my grandma’s from and, you know, kind of liquidate some stuff that way. But, cause I…

Kathi (15:35.685)

Mmm.

Kathi (15:54.181)

yeah.

Hilary Prall (15:57.816)

They’re important things, but also I don’t need to keep them. So not everything has to be kept. Not everything in my house should be important to my nieces and nephews down the road. You know, it’s just not everything is sentimental.

Kathi (16:03.109)

Right.

Kathi (16:15.845)

Yes, and so I love that thought that yes, this is important history, but my house is not a museum. And, you know, we can take pictures. You’ve given me two ideas that I’ve never really considered auction houses and your grandmother’s local historical society. You know, is this something? Yeah. Tell me more about that.

Hilary Prall (16:38.839)

Yeah, they’re actually, yeah. So they’re, well, and this is just because I grew up going to this. There are a couple of, I think, there are always historical societies. So, I mean, they’re always looking for things. They want to have curated, you know, whatever. There’s a big event that we would go to every year. And I can specifically remember there is a whole little room or house devoted to scary old dolls, which I don’t want.

Kathi (16:47.173)

Yeah.

Kathi (17:07.173)

Mm -hmm, right.

Hilary Prall (17:07.958)

But I have two of my grandmas and I have her little baby buggy and that would be a great thing to give them. And, you know, my grandpa was a farmer down there and I mean, they, they want that stuff. They want ephemera and you know, all the things that for all intents and purposes, I will never really look at again, but I have all of this stuff. So unless I want to display it or really feel like I’m going to look at it again, I just, I don’t need that heaviness. But.

Kathi (17:19.205)

Yes.

Kathi (17:27.557)

Right.

Hilary Prall (17:37.973)

I didn’t want to make a rash decision while I was going through things and just pitch it. Because I did get rid of a few things that I kind of am like, shoot. But also, I’m not gonna let that, yeah.

Kathi (17:40.293)

Yeah.

Kathi (17:47.909)

Mm hmm. Well, that’s gonna happen with the amount of stuff you had to deal with. You’re gonna get you’re gonna get rid of a few things that, you know, maybe but we can’t let that keep us from getting rid of the things that are going to stop us from living. And, you know, when we bought this house, and you don’t know anything about my story, but we bought a house in the middle of the woods, like, and the people we bought it from,

Hilary Prall (17:54.293)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (18:06.196)

No.

Hilary Prall (18:14.58)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (18:17.893)

they left a lot of their stuff here, including an antique water stand that we love and they loved it, but they had no place for it. Their kids had no place for it. And so the agreement we left with was if I ever decide to get rid of it, I call them. And if they don’t want it, then it’s up to me to get rid of it. And I was fine with that. And another thing that they…

Hilary Prall (18:29.236)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (18:36.148)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (18:45.221)

They had this giant list of all these things that they were leaving with us, but one thing they were not leaving was an IKEA table. And we’re like, well, that’s odd. You left all this other stuff. Why are you taking the IKEA table? Come to find out this IKEA table was from the original IKEA in… Yes, it was the IKEA in Europe. And it was bought, I think, either in the 40s or 50s and shipped to the United States.

Hilary Prall (18:54.099)

Hilary Prall (19:04.339)

IKEA.

Hilary Prall (19:11.795)

Okay.

Kathi (19:14.085)

And so that’s a part of their family history. And we love that story so much, and they still sell that brand of table at IKEA. We bought that, we bought the 2019 version of it. And you can still have the story without having the object. And to be able to carry that on is great. When do you know that your passion,

Hilary Prall (19:22.322)

Okay, yeah. that’s awesome.

Hilary Prall (19:29.778)

Yeah, yeah.

Hilary Prall (19:35.09)

Absolutely.

Kathi (19:42.757)

for board games or paint by numbers has gotten out of control. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, guys, she mentioned these in the last episode. But how do you know when it’s enough?

Hilary Prall (19:55.634)

Well, I have stipulations so for the the paint by numbers I don’t want although I just bought one that doesn’t doesn’t align with this but it’s it’s so different that it’s okay, but I Don’t really like people in them. I don’t like eyes So they have to sort of fit my colors and I want them to be pretty well done You know the board games I don’t

Kathi (20:05.577)

We won’t judge you.

Kathi (20:13.125)

Mmm.

Okay.

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (20:22.417)

I have shelves that I could stack them on, but part of the display is that I’ve hung a lot of them on the wall as display. So I don’t know, is there an end to something? I would say as long as it’s not stressing you out, you’re not putting yourself in financial distress, you can still walk in your house, I suppose it’s okay.

Kathi (20:28.261)

yes.

Kathi (20:41.253)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (20:44.625)

But if you can no longer enjoy your stuff, that is for me genuinely it. I wanna look at it. I wanna look at it. I wanna enjoy it. I love my stuff, but I don’t wanna have to put it in a tote and think about it randomly. So for me, I don’t wanna store stuff. I want it out and about. And as far as like my family stuff, one thing I did wanna say is just because my mom had it or my grandma had it,

Kathi (20:44.805)

Yeah.

Kathi (20:55.461)

Yeah.

Kathi (21:00.677)

Right, right.

Hilary Prall (21:14.096)

I want to collect my own stuff. I have a whole life ahead of me. I very easily from the loss that has happened in my life could easily think, gosh, I don’t have a life left. But I have a lot of years left hopefully and I have a lot of collecting to do. So I want to have room to collect my own things. I don’t want to have to just have my mom’s stuff.

Kathi (21:16.389)

Right. Yes.

Kathi (21:28.997)

Guess.

Kathi (21:38.021)

I love that. And you said you want to enjoy your stuff, but you also want to enjoy your space. And I think that’s the perfect balance for what we’re talking about. To be able to enjoy your stuff and be able to put your, enjoy your space and to have some guidelines. I love your guidelines for your paint by numbers. It can’t have people, it can’t have I, and you said, but that you said there was an exception to that that you just bought.

Hilary Prall (21:44.431)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (21:48.399)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (21:54.639)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (21:59.759)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (22:03.695)

Yeah.

Kathi (22:04.709)

but you must have loved it so much that you were willing to break your own rule. And I think that’s the reason we have rules and guidelines to keep us kind of contained. But then we know when something is outside of that and that’s really special. Hilary, you’ve given us so much to think about. Where would you like people most to seek you out? Is it through your website, through Instagram? Where should people go find you?

Hilary Prall (22:09.295)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (22:14.415)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (22:29.807)

Instagram first, I hang out there a lot. I’m in stories a lot there, that’s what I love. I love to be able to connect with people that way. So I would say definitely Instagram. From there you can find me anywhere, but also if they go to my website, I have a pop -up to join my email list. I email once a week. I really try to share something there that I’m not sharing anywhere else, so it’s definitely bonus material, bonus content. And…

Kathi (22:33.797)

Yeah. Okay.

Kathi (22:42.181)

Okay.

Kathi (22:51.973)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (22:58.766)

Yeah, I just really, as I have walked through this, the people who have reached out to me saying, I had to go through this, I’m going through this, I’m going to have to go through this, you know, and I think just the self -realization that we can all kind of struggle with it. I’ve had a few messages that were kind of rude, you know, saying this is a mental illness, you know, but I understand. I 100 % understand and I watched my mom struggle with it.

Kathi (23:10.757)

Yeah.

Kathi (23:23.589)

Yeah. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (23:27.629)

overtly for 20 years. You know, so I would be the last person to judge anybody about it, but it would be wonderful if people could seek the help that they, that I’m assuming is out there. I know people specialize in it, but also, you know, if you’re going through it with a family member, I know that, you know, it genuinely is like drugs or alcohol. I mean, I would try to explain that to my husband. It was really hard for him to understand it.

Kathi (23:29.893)

Yeah.

Kathi (23:40.133)

Right.

Kathi (23:50.149)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (23:54.349)

And you know, I know people sometimes do have to just walk away from a situation. Luckily, I didn’t have to do that with my mom, but you have to have some boundaries and anyway, so.

Kathi (24:01.445)

Yeah.

100 % yeah, you know, lots of times with hoarders, they want you to hold on to their stuff. They want you to be a part of it. And just because one person suffers from hoarding doesn’t mean there aren’t other sufferers surrounding them. And, you know, can we acknowledge both as victims? I think that that’s a really important thing that you’re saying here. There’s more than one victim.

Hilary Prall (24:22.123)

Yes, absolutely.

Hilary Prall (24:30.123)

Absolutely.

Kathi (24:33.701)

Hilary, I love the compassion you have for your mom while also speaking the truth. Guys, she’s got tears in her eyes and as the fellow daughter of a hoarder, I feel those tears. I’m further removed than she is. She’s in the thick of it right now. So I wanna say an extra thank you for being here and sharing your story with us. Thank you so much. Okay.

Hilary Prall (24:58.475)

Absolutely, yeah. Thanks.

Kathi (25:01.637)

Friends, you’ve been listening to Clutterfree Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.